nitty leaks

ive played almost 500K hands now. I went from nitty, to trying to work on aggression etcc (failing) to back to nitty.

Playing nitty (50nl) i can certainly maintain about a 2ptbb/100, but there are such obvious leaks that I want to try again to fix. Ive posted some info below, looking for advice on the most likely "biggest" leak to work on, as I only want to improve in one area at a time. I tried too much at once last time.

The thigns that stand out to me the most are the consistent downward flow of nonshowdown winnings, and the huge losses in raised pots... and ofcourse i am playing positions horribly.

also, what exaclt y does it mean that my winnings are higher than the EV?
any advice appreciated

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/111...atshowdown.jpghttp://img32.imageshack.us/img32/han...jpg/1/w640.png

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/9336/hoelcards.jpghttp://img31.imageshack.us/img31/hoe...jpg/1/w618.png

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9332/preflop.jpghttp://img19.imageshack.us/img19/preflop.jpg/1/w640.png

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9779/positiont.jpghttp://img30.imageshack.us/img30/pos...jpg/1/w619.png

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/109...downsandev.jpghttp://img14.imageshack.us/img14/sho...jpg/1/w640.png

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7932/winnings.jpghttp://img189.imageshack.us/img189/w...jpg/1/w640.png

im thinkin I may look for some coaching...

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Originally Posted by langaan

ive played almost 500K hands now

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http://www.pokertableratings.com/img...dge_zombie.png
Zombie: This guy has to be a zombie by now, look at how many hands he has played!

J/K I think you meant 50K
you should learn how to open more hands from the button and cutoff, what you're doing right now is called being "not positionally aware"
learn how to 3b light when the conditions are right
and FFS bet/raise more post-flop
you're not only a nit, but also a calling station

Quote:

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Originally Posted by langaan

looking for advice on the most likely "biggest" leak to work on, as I only want to improve in one area at a time. I tried too much at once last time.

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position.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

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Originally Posted by langaan

ive played almost 500K hands now

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http://www.pokertableratings.com/img...dge_zombie.png
Zombie: This guy has to be a zombie by now, look at how many hands he has played!

J/K I think you meant 50K
you should learn how to open more hands from the button and cutoff, what you're doing right now is called being "not positionally aware"
learn how to 3b light when the conditions are right
and FFS bet/raise more post-flop
you're not only a nit, but also a calling station

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lol, no I meant 500K. been playing since jan 08 and have approx 450K hands played.

Last time around I tried opening up CU/But ranges and stealing more. What I realized during that is that it conflicts with my table selection ?? If there's one thing I know I do very well, its table selection. I always have fish to my right, but quite often have them to my left as well. This makes it difficult to steal....

this goes for 3betting light as well. A large factor in 3 betting light is FE.... fold equity and fish dont come together too often...

bet/raising is def something i need to work on (aggression)

i dont consider myself a calling station, however I know I do make calls when I am sure enough that a fold is the correct play... working on that


Position: (Daven)

lets say for argument sake that position is my biggest leak. Can you explain how? what I mean is, looking at the above stats, does it look as though my winrate on the button is good or bad? and if its good, is it just that im not playing enough hands?
or am I playing poorly in the blinds?


also,
what about my EV question, whats it mean that my winnings are higher and that ev is above 0?
And should there be alarms sounding since I am showing huge losses in raised pots?
Lastly, is my consistant downward losses in nonshowdown winnings the clearest sign that I am not aggressive enough postflop?

thanks guys!!

ps: had a 6 buyin downswing in 800 hands last night, going to post top 5 losing hands in a bit.

What table selection... at a table with 5 fish, I would open wider from BU than UTG. There are very few fish that have 0% fold to steal. Also, when you get called you prefer to have position post-flop so opening from BU should show a much higher profit than from any position because you won't get your raise called by someone with position over you.

I make 57bb/100 OTB and 16bb/100 UTG
you make the same from UTG as you make OTB
you're basically wasting your buttons by playing them the same as UTG

and don't tell me you have 0 regs on your tables at all times, if you did you'd be making 20bb/100 or something

not sure what you mean by your EV question, you're not explaining it well at all... has to do something with all in EV graph? or what

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Originally Posted by iopq

not sure what you mean by your EV question, you're not explaining it well at all... has to do something with all in EV graph? or what

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yes.

my winnings over the 60K are something like $1000, with EV at $500.

does the EV have any direct coralation to overall winnings? or should I be filtering to only hands that I get it all in? If so, how do I filter that in HE Manager

EV already does that
it just means you're running 5 BIs above expectation when you get all in
winning flips PF or on the flop

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iopq

EV already does that
it just means you're running 5 BIs above expectation when you get all in
winning flips PF or on the flop

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thanks iopq...

what about the nonshowdown winnings? i suspect its constant downward spiral is also due to me rarely winning pots with aggression?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by langaan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iopq

EV already does that
it just means you're running 5 BIs above expectation when you get all in
winning flips PF or on the flop

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thanks iopq...

what about the nonshowdown winnings? i suspect its constant downward spiral is also due to me rarely winning pots with aggression?

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yes

Its probably about time to play less hands and learn how to play poker eh?

As for position, think of it this way, if the blinds are your cost of playing, then the CO/BTN should be where you recover most of that cost. You're not.

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

Its probably about time to play less hands and learn how to play poker eh?

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Maybe if I was losing $$$, but im not. Im earning over 3.5ptbb/100 when including rb/bonuses which are worth just under 2ptbb/100.
if I cut down to 2 tables, my winrate would have to be a consistant 6.7ptbb/100 to make up for the lost RB.

im opting to work on my game a little at a time while multitabling, or atleast considering,, havent really decided.

i do know i get terribly bored playing 2 tables.

So let's say you sacrifice a month.. and you take a hit at your total earnings given your lowered volume. And then you learn a few things that you wouldn't have learned.. and maybe you eventually move up to 100nl a month sooner than you would have and suddenly you're making more money at a higher level for a full month more.

This all depends on your goals. If you're content at playing 50nl, then thats fine, but you have to know what your goals are. If your goal is to play 100nl, 200nl, 400nl +. You're gonna have to focus on moving up, and what it will take to get there, rather than your current earnings. No pain, no gain!

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Originally Posted by griffey24

So let's say you sacrifice a month.. and you take a hit at your total earnings given your lowered volume. And then you learn a few things that you wouldn't have learned.. and maybe you eventually move up to 100nl a month sooner than you would have and suddenly you're making more money at a higher level for a full month more.

This all depends on your goals. If you're content at playing 50nl, then thats fine, but you have to know what your goals are. If your goal is to play 100nl, 200nl, 400nl +. You're gonna have to focus on moving up, and what it will take to get there, rather than your current earnings. No pain, no gain!

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thanks griffey, i think you're bang on.

i guess i need to decide if I want to improve my multitable play, or focus on getting better in hopes of moving up levels.

i guess improving my winrate at multitabling 50NL isnt going to help me much at 100NL.... hmmm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by griffey24

So let's say you sacrifice a month.. and you take a hit at your total earnings given your lowered volume. And then you learn a few things that you wouldn't have learned.. and maybe you eventually move up to 100nl a month sooner than you would have and suddenly you're making more money at a higher level for a full month more.

This all depends on your goals. If you're content at playing 50nl, then thats fine, but you have to know what your goals are. If your goal is to play 100nl, 200nl, 400nl +. You're gonna have to focus on moving up, and what it will take to get there, rather than your current earnings. No pain, no gain!

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im a little dependant on the cash flow im getting from 50nl right now...
maybe ill keep grinding a while and build a big enough role to keep the cash flow going for a month or 2 while i back off some tables and focus on improving my game with intentions of moving up....

so
1- keep grinding for the income, and slowly build up role
2- back down some tables and work on play as soon as my role is big enough to keep cashflow going without expecting much of a winrat

Its pretty simple, earn a small winrate at 50nl, or get better and learn to win at 200nl+. The first isnt bad if thats all you want to achieve.

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

Its pretty simple, earn a small winrate at 50nl, or get better and learn to win at 200nl+. The first isnt bad if thats all you want to achieve.

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you know what, its actaully not.

i have a current goal of keeping cashflow, and long term of moving up.

thanks though

Like I say, if you're happy withdrawing $500 a month and achieving that, then good stuff. You dont need to move up. If you want to turn 1.5-2 ptbb/100 into 4-5 ptbb/100 though, you're going to struggle doing that while playing so many hands.

Simplest 'small' adjustment is to start opening up your button range, look to get it up to 25-30%.

Here"s what I see.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5498/1110424667.jpg

Also, the other thing that really stands out is your swings. Hard to measure x BB/100 in such a swingy graph. Your winrates at 15k, 45k, 59k and 62k will all be drasitically different over whats a fairly large sample. Working out whats causing those big downswings and eliminating it would make a huge difference to your overall winrate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

Also, the other thing that really stands out is your swings. Hard to measure x BB/100 in such a swingy graph. Your winrates at 15k, 45k, 59k and 62k will all be drasitically different over whats a fairly large sample. Working out whats causing those big downswings and eliminating it would make a huge difference to your overall winrate.

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think your right,
and tbh, i dont really know if the huge downswings are because of bad play, coolers, combo etc...

jyms, what are you saying... :)

The lower the winrate the higher the swings. guys with 10+BB/100 don"t swing like you do. And like BJ said, You don't know your true winrate and could actually just be running good. It looks like you ran hot at the beginning and now are running about even.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyms

The lower the winrate the higher the swings.

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i dont understand... why ...

for you 2 (jyms/bj) when you are playing solid, what do you expect your winrates to be?

reason i ask is, I have several regs with hand histories over 30K, and i only have 2 or 3 with winrates above 3, and not a heck of alot between 2-3...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by langaan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyms

The lower the winrate the higher the swings.

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i dont understand... why ...

for you 2 (jyms/bj) when you are playing solid, what do you expect your winrates to be?

reason i ask is, I have several regs with hand histories over 30K, and i only have 2 or 3 with winrates above 3, and not a heck of alot between 2-3...

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well I'll answer that one
I'm running at 5 ptbb/100 over 30K hands at NL100

$50NL is basically made up of certain types of players.

Those afraid of $100NL
Those with not enough money to play $100NL
BR grinders on the way up

There are very few $50NL regs playing 100K hands at 5+BB/100 unless they are absolutely stuck on not moving up, ie: withdrawing.

3BB/100 over 30K hands is only $450. Any higher than that winrate I would expect a decent reg with some bonus or point cash to be able to take some shots. And I think $100NL is usually weaker than $50NL on most sites since there are more casual players that will jsut play the "$1 table".