200NL: FD, 3-way

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG visoring! ($356.45)
UTG+1 Anor8wsiatis ($144.40)
CO Pay_SAE ($145.60)
BTN pennpal ($447.10)
SB camptheblunt ($48.60)
BB Hero ($200.00)

Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is BB :9s: :8s:
visoring! raises to $6, Anor8wsiatis calls $6, Pay_SAE calls $6, 2 folds, Hero calls $4

Flop: :4s: :2h: :js: ($25, 4 players)
Hero checks, visoring! bets $16, 1 fold, Pay_SAE calls $16, $16 to Hero ($194)?

visoring is a 24/20 reg who has to have something firing into the uber loose donk. I was thinking a big c/r would look really strong, I should have some FE there. Calling is tempting with odds, though I hate playing draws OOP. thoughts?

Just call. And fold preflop, you said so yourself, you hate playing draws OOP. Unless the donk will stack off with anything.

This is the type of spot/board I lead pretty often with hands like this, as well as a lot of Jx, 88+ type hands. If we lead with 88-TT type hands here and get called, we can fall back on a lot of spade turn/rivers potentially as well.

If I don't think PFR will cbet that often, then I'll lead here to take it down.

As played, villain's sizing is meh not too scary so I'd probably squeeze here reasonably often.

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

Just call. And fold preflop, you said so yourself, you hate playing draws OOP. Unless the donk will stack off with anything.

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how do we fold preflop getting a billion to one with a great implied odds hand with multiple almost fullstack donks in the pot?

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Originally Posted by d0zer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

Just call. And fold preflop, you said so yourself, you hate playing draws OOP. Unless the donk will stack off with anything.

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how do we fold preflop getting a billion to one with a great implied odds hand with multiple almost fullstack donks in the pot?

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You only mentioned one was a donk. And even a donk knows what a flush looks like. I just feel it's to hard to play and get paid off with these hands OOP. Unless you have a better understanding of the players and the dynamics at the table, in which case you should be able to make the decision yourself on what the best play is here.

Folding preflop is terribly nitty and should never be done.

I don't really like check-raising here because I think the donk calls you down too often and you have poor equity against his range.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcatdog

Folding preflop is terribly nitty and should never be done.

I don't really like check-raising here because I think the donk calls you down too often and you have poor equity against his range.

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I don't know.. a donk could be calling all sorts of nonsense on the flop that he might not call a c/r to. AT/AQ and some stuff, 4x, 56, 66+ or anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcatdog

Folding preflop is terribly nitty and should never be done.

I don't really like check-raising here because I think the donk calls you down too often and you have poor equity against his range.

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I don't know.. a donk could be calling all sorts of nonsense on the flop that he might not call a c/r to. AT/AQ and some stuff, 4x, 56, 66+ or anything.

Also, from PFR's perspective. If he's thinking, he will probably realize that we're squeezing despite the fact that a donk fish is in the pot, which may even give us more credibility.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcatdog

Folding preflop is terribly nitty and should never be done.

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How often are we actually winning a big pot here if we call preflop? We're definitely not going to be outplaying anyone for a small one here. So I'd rather 3bet, but since we're likely getting called by the fish I'd rather fold.

Not saying you're wrong, I'm sure I am. I just want to know why I'm wrong more than anything.

You have a hand that makes 2 pair or better 25% of the time by the river, and two fish are in the pot both with nearly full stacks. I'd say we're going to win a big pot extremely often when we call preflop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcatdog

You have a hand that makes 2 pair or better 25% of the time by the river, and two fish are in the pot both with nearly full stacks. I'd say we're going to win a big pot extremely often when we call preflop.

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You have to get to the river first, something that just won't happen often enough. Folding preflop isn't bad, squeezing may be a bit better the more I think about it. --If we were in SB it's clearly a spot I'd want to fold or 3bet.

I woulda led the flop, c/r creates tons of problems ... we could get flatted or re-shoved on by a bigger flush draw. Either instance isn't favorable for us. We may get a call from a strong but not nutted hand and miss on the turn leaving us in a spot where we've built a huge pot and we're out of position without knowing how to treat the situation. Or a set could just shove on us. Better to lead the flop and see what develops after that.

i'm genuinely surprised at people saying that they would fold this pre, such a trivially easy call getting 5+:1 on our money.

i like leading the flop>call flop>c/r. c/r just puts us in a bad spot too much like marshall said.

we're going to win like half of someone's stack when we hit
ok, so donks know what a flush looks like
but they're never folding when we have a straight and they have top pair or two pair

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bode

i'm genuinely surprised at people saying that they would fold this pre, such a trivially easy call getting 5+:1 on our money.

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This, I understand not wanting to play pots out of position, but it's 89s multi-way against full stacks.