Two similar spots with strong draws 50NL

Hand 1: Villain is a decent TAG, 18/13/cbet of 58%, no relevant reads except I know he opens all pairs from all positions

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($176.90)
MP ($99.20)
CO ($50)
Hero (Button) ($51.30)
SB ($65.70)
BB ($54.15)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
1 fold, MP bets $1.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.50, SB calls $1.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($5) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, MP bets $3.50, Hero raises to $10.50, 1 fold, MP calls $7

Turn: ($26) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $16.50, MP raises to $87.20 (All-In), Hero calls $22.80 (All-In)

Total pot: $104.60 | Rake: $3

Hand 2: Villain is unknown but is 28/20/cb 100% over small sample, this is his standard utg raise size.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($50)
Hero (CO) ($51.75)
Button ($80.50)
SB ($88.65)
BB ($179.55)
UTG ($50.25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
UTG bets $2.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50, 3 folds

Flop: ($5.75) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $4, Hero raises to $12, UTG calls $8

Turn: ($29.75) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $24, UTG raises to $35.75 (All-In), Hero calls $11.75

Total pot: $101.25 | Rake: $3


I guess the problem I'm having is that I'm overestimating my fold equity when people b/c the flop. Should I just be checking behind these blank turns?

check turn back, river outs?

nobody floats check raises at da 50NL

1) i would just 3bet pre most of the time. I would tend to take the freebie on the turn, as I don't think your fold equity is high.

2) i would just 3bet pre or fold most of the time. I would tend to call the flop since you cant raise to stack off. As played I would take the freebie as I don't think your fold equity is high here either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iopq

check turn back, river outs?

nobody floats check raises at da 50NL

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I'm in position in both of these hands

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renton

I would tend to call the flop since you cant raise to stack off.

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Wow this is such a simple yet great thought, I can't believe I never thought of this before, thanks.

EDIT: not being sarcastic though it kind of looks like it

EDIT2: Discuss metagame implications of my plays plz

renton, why would you 3bet on hand 1 when villain has 13% pfr?

Why would you 3bet? hands like these play so much better with lots of money behind. Especially when you're in position.

As played, yeah check back the turn. The deeper you are, the better betting the turn becomes.

I have two words for you: FREE CARD

in hand one the turn helps us whereas in hand 2 it doesn't and they both look like total blanks in villains eyes.

since we were NOT the OR (original raiser) in the hand I'd suggest checking back turns as in both cases they likely have strong flop hands.

i also agree with mostly 3betting these hands pre, unless villains are calling 3bets too much, then ditch it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parasurama

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iopq

check turn back, river outs?

nobody floats check raises at da 50NL

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I'm in position in both of these hands

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oh it said SB checked
but when people call raises on the flop it's usually strong hands
your implied odds are good but fold equity is bad

however if you just bet the flop and got one caller it would be the opposite, and you should barrel turn
if you flat these flops you also won't get credit for draws because most people will raise them so you can win more moneys against people who put you on a range

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bspahn

in hand one the turn helps us whereas in hand 2 it doesn't and they both look like total blanks in villains eyes.

since we were NOT the OR (original raiser) in the hand I'd suggest checking back turns as in both cases they likely have strong flop hands.

i also agree with mostly 3betting these hands pre, unless villains are calling 3bets too much, then ditch it.

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Why do you agree with 3 betting? Surely these sorts of hands play a lot better when the SPR is high. By 3 betting you reduce the SPR which in turn makes hands which make big pairs go up in value, no?

Would you rather play 97s IP against a PFR with a stack of 10,000, and a pot of 5 on the flop, or be the preflop aggressor with a stack of 50 and a pot of 40?

In the first scenario it's a lot better to have a hand like 97s than KQo, whereas in the 2nd scenario its better to have KQo than 97s?

the 97s is an ok call pre, but i think vs someone tight like this its fairly close and I also assume that someone playing 50nl isn't gonna have the skills to make a huge profit on the call, but im certain a 3bet will be hugely profitable.

the a3s is just a spewy call pre vs utg open 5x