200NL AA vs. reg OTB button wet flop

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08-22-2009, 05:36 PM
mixchange

200NL AA vs. reg OTB button wet flop

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($200)
SB ($204)
BB ($200)
Hero (UTG) ($200)
MP ($215)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
Hero bets $6, 1 fold, Button calls $6, 2 folds

Flop: ($15) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero ?

This is vs. a 20/15ish 6% 3bet reg who is thinking and is likely to raise these flop OTB with the majority of his button range, and a lot of his range has some decent equity (obviously some is crushing mine). Add that he's willing to bluff scare cards and it becomes a dicey spot.

How are you playing? c/c flop (he'll always bet)? OR b/c his likely flop raise? If you b/c, what turns are you looking to get it in on, if any? Seems really in this pot AA is mostly a bluff catcher

bet fold is awful, and bet3b seems too easy for him to get away from his air.
08-22-2009, 06:01 PM
noble007

Personally I bet get it in with KK/AA if villain is going to play back at us at with alot of his range on such a wet connected flop.

If the flop was just a bit more dry and villain was less tricky and likely to be only raising with good draws & Two Pair+ I would be more likely to bet-call flop and check bomb turn if draw doesn't hit and I knew he would bet the turn in position/or I would bet-call flop and lead turn big like 3/4 if he would check behind his draws. (I would check-fold if draw did hit but sometimes bet call flop with a draw to balance this.)

However on this flop where both straight and flush draws are present, like I may be f'ked if 9/T or heart hits on turn and villain would be able to 'double out' his draws (bet flushdraw on turn when straight hits and vice versa - and I would fold.) then I'm more likely to get it in on flop & also because his draw stack off range vs. his nut stack off range is alot wider in this spot + bluffs , so our equity vs. his range is a lot better.
08-22-2009, 06:27 PM
Parasurama

I like b/c and lead blank turns
08-23-2009, 06:05 AM
Numbr2intheWorld

If you think a flop raise is likely (meaning, he'll raise a wide range) then i think you know what to do.

I'm kinda surprised you think that though, i usually default bet/fold. I never check this.
08-23-2009, 11:31 AM
Alexos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

If you think a flop raise is likely (meaning, he'll raise a wide range) then i think you know what to do.

I'm kinda surprised you think that though, i usually default bet/fold. I never check this.
08-23-2009, 05:41 PM
Renton

bet folding seems kind of nuts

i would normally bet 3b but this is a pretty neat spot to c/r as pfr too.
08-25-2009, 04:13 AM

I think it's a standard b/c and think about folding the turn
08-25-2009, 05:20 AM
Da GOAT

damn bet/folding seems really nitty. Id just call a raise tho instead of getting it in, seems abit kamikaze to get it in on flop.
08-25-2009, 05:48 AM
Galapogos

What turn card are you bet/callers hoping to see besides the ace of clubs? I b3b with this read and b/f a fair amount of the time. I also think Renton's idea of c/ring is kind of cool too.
08-25-2009, 06:06 AM
Da GOAT

if i go for a c/r im folding to a shove/3bet from opp so id c/r if i know he will call down way more than 3bet.

a b/c line is standard i think, we cant be afraid of playing some poker. I think getting it in on the flop is pretty bad ie c/r alling and b/3bet lines.
08-25-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

What turn card are you bet/callers hoping to see besides the ace of clubs?

I'm hoping to see a check imo
nobody barrels here 100% of the time after c/ring as a bluff

and ace of diamonds is not bad either?!
08-25-2009, 02:36 PM
Galapogos

Ace of diamonds results in whatever poker site this is shutting down for a while.
08-25-2009, 05:36 PM
jyms

LOL the Ad.

I would normally C/C if I think I can get bluff barreled by B/Clling. If he has a wide flop raising range with a decent amount of equity, I would far rather see more streets when he has less equity and shut down on some scare cards than get this in on the flop vs what may be close to a flip.
08-25-2009, 05:46 PM
aka_red

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyms

LOL the Ad.

I would normally C/C if I think I can get bluff barreled by B/Clling. If he has a wide flop raising range with a decent amount of equity, I would far rather see more streets when he has less equity and shut down on some scare cards than get this in on the flop vs what may be close to a flip.

I think that is possibly even worse than checking and folding.
08-25-2009, 07:25 PM
jyms

I think I said I would check, no?
08-25-2009, 07:37 PM
aka_red

lol
08-25-2009, 07:51 PM
jyms

First time you post in the SHNL forum in over 3 months and it's just to troll my posts? Nice to see I mean so much to you that your willing to leave IRC just to come back to FTR and grace us with your presence.
08-25-2009, 08:33 PM
aka_red

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyms

First time you post in the SHNL forum in over 3 months and it's just to troll my posts? Nice to see I mean so much to you that your willing to leave IRC just to come back to FTR and grace us with your presence.

Actually I was just making the comment that I think. c/f > c/c. It is funny to see that your first reply to my post has almost nothing to do with what I wrote. As a result, I lol'd because it seems as though you didn't even read what I had to say. Thirdly you seem to feel victimized, if I had anything else that was interesting to say about the hand I would have. However, the other players were nice enough to discuss the bet/x option. I felt the bet/x option was exhausted and merely wanted to comment that I felt c/c was worse than c/f.

Also I feel that your complete whiff on a response to my post reflects upon your poker as well. By that I mean it seems that you take no time to evaluate the significance of a particular event and snap to a conclusion in which you stick to. Despite that a majority of others seem to disagree with your decision and its 'correctness'. Which if I were to guess would be result in your poker performance or lack thereof. Although if my wife were mad because I didn't add any income to the family and was frustrated because I was not smart enough to do anything about it I would probably provide a similar response to you.
08-25-2009, 08:42 PM
jyms

Well I guess I misunderstood that you said it was worse than checking AND folding. I didn't see you mention C/F which is std language 'round these here parts.
08-25-2009, 09:05 PM
aka_red

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyms

Well I guess I misunderstood that you said it was worse than checking AND folding. I didn't see you mention C/F which is std language 'round these here parts.

get on my level hoe, what?
08-25-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Ace of diamonds results in whatever poker site this is shutting down for a while.

why don't the converters do four color decks I thought we had the ace of hearts since our suit was red, lidog
08-25-2009, 10:10 PM
mixchange

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

If you think a flop raise is likely (meaning, he'll raise a wide range) then i think you know what to do.

I'm kinda surprised you think that though, i usually default bet/fold. I never check this.

I guess I just don't know what to do.

If he's raising really wide, it would seem like you'd want to bet/call, and let him continue with air range. B3B seems to just fold out all his air and we get it in with sets, 2p, a bunch of draws we're flipping with or behind. As UTG B3B here is gonna look super strong, it's not like this is BvB and we will get looked up light.

As much as any of the good regs here can explain this spot to me or nudge me in the right direction it would be great, I find this really confusing.

Red and Jyms if you could take your discussion to PM I would appreciate that, thanks!
08-26-2009, 09:28 AM
Da GOAT

most raising hands will have great equity vs our hand basically. all bluffs are strong semi bluff hand since they likely float all other worse draws. and then theres his value range he raises with that has you crushed.

i said id b/c here bcoz i cant let go.
08-26-2009, 04:33 PM
aka_red

I think betting and calling is pretty bad if your folding a lot of turns. Especially if you think he has a fair amount of air in his range.
08-26-2009, 07:49 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Max ended the thread
08-26-2009, 09:07 PM
mixchange

the flop just looks so dirty it seems easy for button to abuse us, which is why I looked for other lines (which were also not that palatable). I guess sometimes I see monsters under the bed when they aren't there, i.e. thinking people are exploiting me when perhaps they're not really.

Bet fold was my first instinct, but for some reason I thought that would be ridiculously exploitable to fold aces to one raise from button on this board. I guess sometimes I over think... the other lines i came up with were pretty terrible.