100NL: turn bluff

If I check I can't call a bet, if I bet I expect to get called by one card flush + pair combinations
but if I check/raise maybe he folds those one card flush + pair combinations and top pair that he bets to protect against MY one card flush + pair combinations

this is a 23/16/3.7 (3b) ABC tag, so I don't think he has the balls to ship the NFD on me unless it's like top pair + nfd
sizing is a little large, though, I would like to leave myself room to bluff a non-diamond river
although I'm mostly repping a flush so my value range is actually not that wide because he'd expect me to c/c a set on the turn or to bet it outright

the reason I'm c/ring is because MOST OF THE HANDS HE HAS HERE SHOULD CHECK FOR POT CONTROL like Qx or JJ

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($33.95)
BB ($135.10)
Hero (UTG) ($253.25)
MP ($127.70)
CO ($100.15)
Button ($100)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
Hero bets $4, 1 fold, CO calls $4, 3 folds

Flop: ($9.50) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $7, CO calls $7

Turn: ($23.50) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $15, Hero raises to $45

How do you like it? Is simply barreling better? Or just c/f?

hmmm

You'd never actually c/r the flush correct? - since I'm pretty sure it's better to c/r here as a bluff as opposed to doing it for value assuming your opponent doesn't know this because if you check with the nuts then your 2barrel range would be really weak.

So yeah I like it, but I'm a spewbox and look for excuses to do tricky things like this altough he's going to have a pretty thin continuing range, and if he just lolflatcalls with 1 pair you have outs.

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Originally Posted by iopq

but if I check/raise maybe he folds those one card flush + pair combinations and top pair that he bets to protect against MY one card flush + pair combinations

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The problem with this is mostly that his turn betting range is much stronger than you give him credit for. You're UTG, most ppl will be checking back most marginal hands and even some Qx hands. He's def not betting his pair+diamond hands I wouldn't think.

You're risking 45 to run this bluff (which you happen to be running vs the strongest part of his range , since he's betting in the first place), when you can practically risk the same amount firing two more barrels and at least be betting against his full range which isn't as strong.

All that being said, I would just c/f.

Really bad, just c/f.

I would think that 5d card improves his range a lot more than it does ours. It fits his PF / flop calling / Turn leading range pretty well imo. I dont think a bluff here works like ever. Just kinda one of those meh give up kinda hands that sucks being oop

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Originally Posted by griffey24

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Originally Posted by iopq

but if I check/raise maybe he folds those one card flush + pair combinations and top pair that he bets to protect against MY one card flush + pair combinations

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The problem with this is mostly that his turn betting range is much stronger than you give him credit for. You're UTG, most ppl will be checking back most marginal hands and even some Qx hands. He's def not betting his pair+diamond hands I wouldn't think.

You're risking 45 to run this bluff (which you happen to be running vs the strongest part of his range , since he's betting in the first place), when you can practically risk the same amount firing two more barrels and at least be betting against his full range which isn't as strong.

All that being said, I would just c/f.

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I wud thumbs up/5spade this post if i cud. Most replies and advice wud only contain the last sentence but good to see a whole two paragraphs explaining.

omg ok this is annoying me what dose 1000NL mean? like how much i see it every where but i don't know what it means

your turn c/r makes no sense. you seem to do a lot of stuff assuming your villains' can't hand read that well or don't have the balls to do "X". You are assuming too much on these plays. A lot of ppl may not hand read that well, but they will often think your line here is "weird" and call with any queen, medium to high diamonds+pair, and of course you aren't folding any flushes.

and its a spot where he is calling a lot of hands that will fold the river, but you you'll be totally guessing overall. I also think if he folded here to your turn line you probably could have gotten him to fold on the turn with a regular barrel. A lot of players calling with a mid pair will see if you barrell turn, and will especially fold on the flush card.

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Originally Posted by Mr.moneyhugg

omg ok this is annoying me what dose 1000NL mean? like how much i see it every where but i don't know what it means

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They are referring to the maximum buy-in the table allows. Since Pokerstars and Full Tilt etc. run mostly non-deep tables people have become accustomed to online talking about the max buy-in, rather than the buy in level.

Most of the posts in this forum willbe 50NL-600NL (.25/50 and 3/6 blinds) with a little 1000NL (5/10) because the High Stakes forum doesn't get a lot of traffic.

This post is 100NL though, not 1000

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Originally Posted by griffey24

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Originally Posted by iopq

but if I check/raise maybe he folds those one card flush + pair combinations and top pair that he bets to protect against MY one card flush + pair combinations

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The problem with this is mostly that his turn betting range is much stronger than you give him credit for. You're UTG, most ppl will be checking back most marginal hands and even some Qx hands. He's def not betting his pair+diamond hands I wouldn't think.

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Can you expand why you think his range his turn betting range is so strong here? Maybe its a stake thing, but I feel like a lot of 100NL players will make a mistake and bet a lot of hands here they "shouldn't" if that makes sense.

I also feel like him assuming that pair+flush combos are not raising flop from an ABC TAG is strange...most "abc" tags just see pair+fd and insta raise flop. not a bad one to do so on either.

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All that being said, I would just c/f.

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Ya I agree. But I really like the fight IOPQ puts into his hands. Props dude on being willing to make moves.

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Originally Posted by mixchange

Can you expand why you think his range his turn betting range is so strong here? Maybe its a stake thing, but I feel like a lot of 100NL players will make a mistake and bet a lot of hands here they "shouldn't" if that makes sense.

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Alright well this is fully read dependent. It's ofcourse conceivable that people are betting QxJd here or 99d here with the intention of b/f, but in general I'd say the turn betting range here is pretty strong (flush got there and straight got there). I'd imagine even if his betting range is weak, that it's probably b/c a lot of the time, and we're kinda lost on what to do on any diamond or non diamond river.