New to NL2, first 10k hands (graphs/stats)

Here it goes. First bit of background. Played off and on poker for 2-3 years, mainly live with my friends. During this year started to play online. Like always underrolled had some luck then it got to me and I lost it all (my red line was pretty much opposite of blue line, and not in a good way). Started to play SNGs/MTTs with decent results but felt underrolled for them and again lost it.

Recently decided to do it the right way, start at the bottom and work/learn my way up. Cash game is my choice now. I want to become profficient in it, MTT/SNGs can wait (and they will).

I have lot of spare time, and would like for this to become my first source of income. Even at this level with results I have right now, I am making about 40% of what I would be payed at a job I can get as a student. This means that if I get slightly better I could make more money playing good poker then working some lousy job like McDonalds. So, I'm really motivated to improve.

One more thing. I multitable, heavily. I didn't do this before, but tried it recently when I was starting and multitabling 10-12 tables makes me play better poker, or so I think. My problem was often overplaying marginal hands. With amount of hands I play when multitabling like that I just don't have time to do it so I focus on the good ones. This however means I am quite nitty (in my stats).

I buyin with 2$ (out of 5 max). This is 100BB but compared to some players on the table it is short. Should I change this?

Here they are, tried to get them all, sorry if it's looong :).

http://i37.tinypic.com/2gt81f7.png
Little comment, I've noticed that my red line was going down. So I googled, found FTR among other things and read a few articles about fixing the red line. As you can see, it's pretty obvious on the graph when it happened. After going steadily now for ~2200 hands I am now breakeven over next 5000. Not enough hands to be completely sure but I am happy with it. Thanks FTR :).

One more comment, that fall at about 6500 hands is partly tilt, partly me misclicking. Due to multitabling and me checking my account window jumped up when a guy shoved and I clicked "raise" so I pretty much ended all in with 59o. This happened 2 or so times in quick succession as I was playing at 3-4am. After this some tilt ensued.

Second fall at about 7500-8000 was when I played 6-8 tables which pretty much meant I was bluffing more. Didn't go that well. Mental issues are still a problem for me. Trying to fix them.

http://i33.tinypic.com/55qe83.png
Graph without UTG/SB/BB (filtering 7 and up)

http://i38.tinypic.com/2lwb2f4.png
Positions 7-9
Am I supposed to be losing this much without showdown?

http://i35.tinypic.com/2d6mf5v.png
Position stats, small number of hands shows here with that unusual negative.

http://i37.tinypic.com/34hazqx.png
More stats

http://i34.tinypic.com/2yjwy8m.png
And details.


I know it's long. Thanks for checking out. I'm pretty sure that without tilt/misclicks and sticking to what works for me I can have 10-12BB/100, and with some improvements hopefully more.

Nice stats, 13/8 is pretty good at 2NL (where everyone limps), you are off to a good start!!

Don't get too hung up on the red line, it will typically go down at 2NL since it is filled with calling stations and weak players who call too much and don't fold. This means we don't win much by making others fold and more so by value at showdown.

Suggestion for improvement:
Never open limp, EVER!!
Become more positionally aware, tighten up UTG, UTG+1 and open more from the CO and Button. Your ATS (currently 12%) will go up (ideally 30%+).

Hope this helps, good luck at the tables!!

Forget the red line. The only way for that to be positive is to get people to fold before the river. That's not going to happen in 2nl, 5nl, 10nl, 50nl, whatever. I'd hazard a guess that a lot of people have a negative red line. I do and I'm not worried about it. The only line that matters is the green line, really.

Don't get hung up on stats. I'd suggest you play less tables because I don't think you can learn much playing that many tables. You've got to overcome your propensity to play poor hands because you get bored. Try 4 tabling 6-max. You can play more hands and it's faster so less boring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cougar

Nice stats, 13/8 is pretty good at 2NL (where everyone limps), you are off to a good start!!

Don't get too hung up on the red line, it will typically go down at 2NL since it is filled with calling stations and weak players who call too much and don't fold. This means we don't win much by making others fold and more so by value at showdown.

Suggestion for improvement:
Never open limp, EVER!!
Become more positionally aware, tighten up UTG, UTG+1 and open more from the CO and Button. Your ATS (currently 12%) will go up (ideally 30%+).

Hope this helps, good luck at the tables!!

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About open limping, I did it because chances of someone raising at NL2 are much lower than on higher levels so I gave myself some more freedom with entering the flop on a limp. True I could take it out and instead preflop raise if I am in late position.

About tightening UTG/UTG+1, I am working on that. I have played 5k more hands and I am up 30$ roughly at 16BB/100. I have started to remove leaks like calling when I know I am beat and such. Giving them credit if the reraise me, also not firing CBets into multiway pots or very drawy boards.

My ATS is going up. I was not opening very wide variety of hands, especially into unopened pots. It's risen from 12 it was to 15 in 5k hands. Doing some math it means that in last 5k hands my ATS was 20.

I will post an update when I reach 20k hands.

@tuuk2: I am playing so many tables as a way to grind my bankroll up. I've already got to 63$ and I am aiming to go up to 100 and try NL5. I'll downgrade number of tables once I am in levels where I find money more serious and levels which are more tough. We'll see if it is NL5 or maybe NL10, ...

Thanks for comments.

Looks pretty good. I think you might be calling 3bets too often but it could be that 2NL has deeper stacks and a lot of 3bets do tend to be min 3bets, so I dunno maybe you have implied odds a lot of the time.

If you want to make more money than a kid that flips burgers, you're either going to need to play more tables, or play a higher limit. I think $12/$15 per hour 12tabling 25NL is doable but I don't think you're good enough for that yet. Please don't take offence to that, but if you were you'd probably be crushing the decue a lot harder than you currently are.

I think that 24 tabling 10NL could sustain a $10+ hourly rate minimal playing the same game as you are now.

If you plan on doing this a lot definitely look into getting tableninja is you play on stars or poker shortcuts for full tilt, they'll really help save on the miss clicks, let you devote more time to thinking rather than mouse movement, it just make things easier on you in an ergonomic respect.

You should also consider just flipping burgers instead and grinding for extra money on the side. The effects of running bad or hitting a downswing can be really devastating when you're counting on a paycheque in the near future. And its not like you'll be in a position to cash out part of your roll and drop down in limits because you can't go down much further.

You can play a lot more hands from the btn and co.

Filter for utg, utg+1 and hands worse than 77+, AQo+, AJs+, KQs - and re-evaluate those.
You can prolly play a 10% range profitably from UTG at 2nl, but if you can then you can play a lot more hands in position.

Take a standard hand where you raise preflop and get one or two callers - any hh will do, but change your position to the btn... and then try to plan out the hand in terms of how to extract the most value. And then put yourself in first position on the flop and try again. It should become apparent why one is much more favorable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBowlBoy

Looks pretty good. I think you might be calling 3bets too often but it could be that 2NL has deeper stacks and a lot of 3bets do tend to be min 3bets, so I dunno maybe you have implied odds a lot of the time.

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I think this is the case. I often don't give enough credit to players when they 3bet me so I end up stacking off with QQ or similar. Quite often even very bad players end up having AA and KK and dominating me. Or I end up having a coinflip against AK. Also lot of 3bets do end up being very small or minimal. It's probably increases the percentage a bit.

I'm trying to get into a midset of giving credit to the players, and instead of seeing potential profit, I should see what I can lose. If I lose money I can't use it to make more money in a more profitable opportunity. If I keep it I can. I'm trying to remind myself of that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBowlBoy

If you want to make more money than a kid that flips burgers, you're either going to need to play more tables, or play a higher limit. I think $12/$15 per hour 12tabling 25NL is doable but I don't think you're good enough for that yet. Please don't take offence to that, but if you were you'd probably be crushing the decue a lot harder than you currently are.

I think that 24 tabling 10NL could sustain a $10+ hourly rate minimal playing the same game as you are now.

If you plan on doing this a lot definitely look into getting tableninja is you play on stars or poker shortcuts for full tilt, they'll really help save on the miss clicks, let you devote more time to thinking rather than mouse movement, it just make things easier on you in an ergonomic respect.

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Why would I take offence? I am well aware of how bad I am. That's why I am here with this mindset of asking for advice instead of assuming I'm a great poker player.

Thanks for Tableninja, I'll check it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBowlBoy

You should also consider just flipping burgers instead and grinding for extra money on the side. The effects of running bad or hitting a downswing can be really devastating when you're counting on a paycheque in the near future. And its not like you'll be in a position to cash out part of your roll and drop down in limits because you can't go down much further.

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I am flipping burgers (well not literally but doing a minimum wage job) already, for 5 hours a day roughly. I am open to working something full time but economy is in the hole. I've always liked poker and this is more incentive to become better :).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oskar

You can play a lot more hands from the btn and co.

Filter for utg, utg+1 and hands worse than 77+, AQo+, AJs+, KQs - and re-evaluate those.
You can prolly play a 10% range profitably from UTG at 2nl, but if you can then you can play a lot more hands in position.

Take a standard hand where you raise preflop and get one or two callers - any hh will do, but change your position to the btn... and then try to plan out the hand in terms of how to extract the most value. And then put yourself in first position on the flop and try again. It should become apparent why one is much more favorable.

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I've filtered for those hands and I've found 1866 total hands (including ones I fold) that fit the criteria. Of those 1866 I am in profit by 0.65$. It doesn't seem like that big of a leak. Most of the hands I played from UTG/UTG+1 that are weaker than ones you outlined are pocket pairs and AJo/ATs.

VPIP of 5% for those hands.

I am trying to improve my position use. I am at 17k hands now and ATS is 17%. So I am doing it much more (first 10k hands were 12-13 and in next 7k I moved up 4-5%).

ATS = Attempt to steal??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nonofyobiz

ATS = Attempt to steal??

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I assume so yes.

Update at 20k.
http://i34.tinypic.com/if1mxk.png

http://i34.tinypic.com/35c1ph2.png

Short update. I've tried to play more positionally aware game, steal more from LP and to stop paying villains off when they hit strong hands. I think I am doing good on all those areas. Maybe not perfect but I am improving and it's showing in my game.

I've noticed that I have serious issues playing deep stacked game. If I buyin for 5$ (250BBs) I just cannot play properly. I end up stacking off with mediocre hands (something that you can do with 100BBs IMO) and most of players with 5$ at the table are not donkfish but players wanting to improve like me who do know something about poker. I've tried to move to 5$ buyin few times to increase potential profit as I feel I am beating majority of the level but it's just not working as planned. Maybe I need a period of adjustment or something. I'm not sure.

I've decided to stick to 100BB buyin regardless of missed income opportunity. It's good to get used to that stack as it's going to be norm once I level up to NL10.

If I hadn't tried to buyin for 5$ few times I would probably be at around 90-95$ right about now which would be nice :). Last two sessions I'm soundly beating NL2 with 20-25BB/100 average. I'll try to keep that going for a while to prove myself I am good enough to move up to NL10 once I get good enough bankroll.

I've sent you a private message