thin shove against a wide range

I had just sat into my session.. this was my fifth hand .. and i had just 3bet double barreled another guy of top pair on the flop when an ace hit the turn.. he folded and showed.. the villain in this hand had limp folded preflop in that hand.. right after that hand this happend.. the villain at this point was 67/33/inf after 3 hands..

Stage #1708206260: Holdem No Limit $0.50 - 2009-10-24 20:12:12 (ET)
Table: LAZY ST (Real Money) Seat #6 is the dealer
Seat 6 - ERRRR513 ($56.06 in chips)D
Seat 1 - WEESE74 ($71.47 in chips)SB
Seat 2 - VILLAIN ($113.79 in chips)BB
Seat 3 - MASTERYOD333 ($45.64 in chips)
Seat 4 - HERO ($51.75 in chips)
Seat 5 - MISHEK01 ($40 in chips)
WEESE74 - Posts small blind $0.25
VILLAIN - Posts big blind $0.50
MISHEK01 - Posts $0.50
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [Qs Kd]
MASTERYOD333 - Folds
HERO - Raises $2 to $2
MISHEK01 - Folds
ERRRR513 - Folds
WEESE74 - Folds
VILLAIN - Calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [8h 9s Ks]
VILLAIN - Checks
HERO - Bets $3
VILLAIN - Raises $13.75 to $13.75
HERO - Calls $10.75
*** TURN *** [8h 9s Ks] [9c]
VILLAIN - Checks
HERO - All-In $36

I think i have a majority of his range crushed.. pair with flush draws..str8 with flush draws.. naked flush draws.. naked str8 draws.. Kx with the same kicker or worse.. the only hands i loose to in my mind are 88 and k9.. i shoved for value coz this guy seemed like a fish who would feel committed and donk off with the larger part of his range.. standard play would be to check and call river i think but wanted to know whether this line seems like its going for max value or a bit spewy..

I really think you can fold the flop here, i dont see any reason to think you're winning.

I don't see how you can be crushing any range with about $30 in the pot and $36 behind. The flop call was horribad. He's not bluffing a 4x raise on that board.

I don't fault the flop call at all really. You have essentially no history, 3 hands at the table is not nearly enough to make any kind of assessments about his range or how he plays. I definitely wouldn't fold this on the flop, on the turn I think it's closer but it still may be a call.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshall28

I don't fault the flop call at all really. You have essentially no history, 3 hands at the table is not nearly enough to make any kind of assessments about his range or how he plays. I definitely wouldn't fold this on the flop, on the turn I think it's closer but it still may be a call.

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i'm not sure you realize he's the one who's shoving the turn

Thanks for the insight.. i thought a fold on the flop would be quite weak esp against him.. he had limp folded the button earlier..and flatted my raise in the bb..and seemed to be the mark on the table even though its was just a few hands in.. I think he might make the same play with a few worse kings and draws as well.. the 9 on the turn was a pretty decent card.. and if i was good on the flop i should be good on the turn as well..

Will consider folding in similar spots in the future..

Vs the range you gave him with all those combo draws, spades, sets and some weaker kings your essentially flipping on this flop. If he really is a weak limp folder Id rather strengthen his range a bit, the spot is rarely going bonkers with K3 or J9 on this flop. Also theres like half the deck beating us or killing our action, which makes this an easy fold on flop imo.

the flop is a tough spot, i'd just check back the turn and evaluate river.

The problem is that a fish will have many many more combos of K9 and 89 than a reg will. A reg might only have 89ss here as two pairs, while a fish will have all K9o and 89o.

check back and re-eval river for sure. If he checks again, I'd prob shove on river for value and expect him to have some weird Kx or K8 even. If he shoves into us on river I'd prob fold.