10NL: AKo in BTN gets 3bet by BB

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11-14-2009, 08:50 PM
Fortitude

10NL: AKo in BTN gets 3bet by BB

Villain is 30/26/22 over 92 hands (last number is 3bet percentage)
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($3.36)
Hero (Button) ($10.07)
SB ($2)
BB ($15.88)
UTG ($2.36)
MP1 ($10)
MP2 ($10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
4 folds, Hero bets $0.30, 1 fold, BB raises to $0.90, Hero calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.85) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets $1, Hero calls $1

Turn: ($3.85) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets $2, Hero folds

Total pot: $3.85 | Rake: $0.25

So basically I flat preflop because I don't want to chase out worse hands.
After he bets on the flop I put him on an overpair or he could be doing this with two overs if he feels the flop has not hit me. I am in this situation a lot with two overs facing a half-2/3 pot bet and I always feel as if the opponent is betting with air.
I call on the flop and I fold the turn

The reason i am posting this is I am having difficulty being able to distinguish when my opponent is bluffing here and when he isnt (on the flop). He three bet pre flop and I guess he sensed weakness in my flat call preflop and could potentially be betting air here.
but how would I know?

Thanks
11-14-2009, 10:54 PM
Pelion

Hes 3betting 22%? :shock: How do you not get this in preflop?
11-14-2009, 10:59 PM
Pelion

To explain further. If hes 3betting this wide then one of two things is going to happen.

a) You 4bet and he folds anything worse than AK. You 4bet bluff a shittonne and get rich quick.

b) He covers that weakness a little (either knowingly or not) by getting it in with worse than AK preflop. You 4bet here for value and get rich quick.

b is going to be far more common, especially given hes generally loose.
11-14-2009, 11:02 PM
Pelion

Do yourself a favour. Download pokerstove. Pretend his 3bet is 15% or so to err on the side of caution with the relatively small number of hands you have on him. Plug it into pokerstove and have a look at just how many hands that is.

www.pokerstove.com
11-14-2009, 11:32 PM
Micro2Macro

Small sample, how many opportunites has he had to 3bet?
11-15-2009, 04:17 AM
Fortitude

I have poker stove I just don't have the time to use it in game when multitabling

I mostly use it when reviewing hands
11-15-2009, 07:34 AM
Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

Small sample, how many opportunites has he had to 3bet?

92 hands isnt that small. Its enough that his true 3bet almost has to be over 10, and is pretty likely to be as high as 15.
11-16-2009, 11:28 PM
rpm

this ones definitely a preflop shove for me considering how much he's been threebetting, and he's 3betting against your range when it's at it's widest (the BU)
11-16-2009, 11:28 PM
rpm

this ones definitely a preflop shove for me considering how much he's been threebetting, and he's 3betting against your range when it's at it's widest (the BU)
11-17-2009, 04:08 AM
surviva316

Re: 10NL: AKo in BTN gets 3bet by BB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortitude

So basically I flat preflop because I don't want to chase out worse hands.

believe it or not, one of the things that makes AKo so valuable is it's fold equity preflop because it has blockers to AA,KK. pelion gives good reasoning for getting it in preflop vs this opponent.

as for post flop, i got through 10nl in auto-float mode (though not necessarily suggested), and i think that floating a 1/2 PSB cbet on a board that missed his range (it only missed it because he's such a chronic 3b'er) with backdoor flush draw + solid overs will have some pretty +EV results. once he barrels the turn, any option that involves continuing would be massive spew without sick reads.
11-17-2009, 04:28 AM
Micro2Macro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

Small sample, how many opportunites has he had to 3bet?

92 hands isnt that small. Its enough that his true 3bet almost has to be over 10, and is pretty likely to be as high as 15.

his 3bet % is likely at least half of what it says right now over a legit sample size, but it definately is wide as you mentoin. and yeah I'd be 4bet/calling this pre.
11-17-2009, 06:24 AM
Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortitude

I have poker stove I just don't have the time to use it in game when multitabling

I mostly use it when reviewing hands

Same with everyone else I expect. I mean go review.
11-17-2009, 08:51 AM
Carroters

Taking this pot down preflop with AK is a great result, getting it in preflop is also a great result.

Flatting wouldn't even enter into my thought process in this spot. If he's spewy, I could flat like AA and KK here and rape him postflop.
11-17-2009, 09:25 AM
bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

getting it in preflop is also a great result.

nah
11-17-2009, 11:28 AM
surviva316

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

getting it in preflop is also a great result.

well let's not get the kid's hopes up:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

34,848 games 0.008 secs 4,356,000 games/sec

Board: Jh Ts 7h 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.727% 36.42% 08.30% 12693 2893.50 { AKo }
Hand 1: 55.273% 46.97% 08.30% 16368 2893.50 { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

does that make all the newbies' heads asplode? if you're looking to be a favorite going AIPF with AKo, you're going to be disappointed. it always helps to do a lot of soul searching to figure out WHY getting it all in preflop with AK and QQ is so often profitable at 6m even though they're pretty much always behind like every range. you'll save yourself a lot of money in the future in certain situations, and win yourself a good bit of money knowing when to 4b and when not to and so forth.
11-17-2009, 11:36 AM
kmind

Quick edit your post surviva!
11-17-2009, 12:38 PM
Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by surviva316

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

getting it in preflop is also a great result.

well let's not get the kid's hopes up:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

34,848 games 0.008 secs 4,356,000 games/sec

Board: Jh Ts 7h 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.727% 36.42% 08.30% 12693 2893.50 { AKo }
Hand 1: 55.273% 46.97% 08.30% 16368 2893.50 { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

does that make all the newbies' heads asplode? if you're looking to be a favorite going AIPF with AKo, you're going to be disappointed. it always helps to do a lot of soul searching to figure out WHY getting it all in preflop with AK and QQ is so often profitable at 6m even though they're pretty much always behind like every range. you'll save yourself a lot of money in the future in certain situations, and win yourself a good bit of money knowing when to 4b and when not to and so forth.

http://www.cultofmac.com/wordpress/w...leFacePalm.jpg
11-17-2009, 01:34 PM
surviva316

DAMNIT, PELION ALREADY QUOTED ME ON IT!!!!!

well, anyway, my general point still holds:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.291% 45.46% 07.83% 588519936 101330382.00 { AKo }
Hand 1: 46.709% 38.88% 07.83% 503321124 101330382.00 { 99+, AJs+, AJo+ }
11-17-2009, 04:28 PM
kmind

I tried :(
11-17-2009, 04:39 PM
spoonitnow

A bit of your value from stacking off with AK comes from the times he folds a hand he should call with. Just sayin.
11-17-2009, 07:06 PM
Micro2Macro

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

A bit of your value from stacking off with AK comes from the times he folds a hand he should call with. Just sayin.

THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
11-18-2009, 05:34 PM
KingIv3rson

if it were me im raising his 3bet..AK is a very good hand and since u stated he was 3betting alot...why not raise. I think the flat call on the flop is bad imo