OOP AJ vs habitual min-3bettor.

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11-25-2009, 03:03 PM
Pelion

OOP AJ vs habitual min-3bettor.

Villain is like 35/30 and has been making these small 3bets vs me a lot. I folded the first couple with hands like A5o, and 4 bet one which he folded. Here I could maybe 4bet for value, but I decide to call and check/raise a tonne of flops I miss instead. Im also getting it in on most A or J high boards. This flop isnt quite as dry as Id like but its not too bad. Lots of stuff we are behind will straight out fold, and lots of the stuff that will call we are ahead of anyway. We also have backdoor straight draws and both overcards. The sizing is deliberate to allow a pot sized barrel if I want it, and for implied threat. I also think its big enough that he folds his 88 or AK type stuff on the flop.

He went a few seconds into the timebank before calling the flop c/r. When the turn gives us more equity and a few more good hands to rep, and his timing on the flop is probably weakness is it a good shove? Im pretty sure a shove is better than c/f since he can still have (and fold) a lot of stuff like gutshots or AT, KT, QT and hes aggro enough and the SPR on the turn is small enough that he could shove them at weakness. Im not sure if there isnt a better way to play it though.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($30.25)
UTG ($28.45)
Hero (MP) ($25.35)
CO ($28.35)
Button ($45.65)
SB ($25)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
1 fold, Hero bets $1, CO raises to $2.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $1.25

Flop: ($4.85) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $2.75, Hero raises to $7, CO calls $4.25

Turn: ($18.85) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $16.10 (All-In),
11-25-2009, 05:21 PM
Silly String

What's not to like? If he has a hand or is a station than oh well, note him up.
11-27-2009, 01:17 AM
Genitruc

well you re probably losing money with this exact play in a bubble after getting called and he s probably never folding the turn after calling the flop

but

once you CR the flop and hit near gin on the turn gotta shove baby
11-27-2009, 03:14 AM
mcatdog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

well you re probably losing money with this exact play in a bubble after getting called and he s probably never folding the turn after calling the flop

Yeah check-folding the turn is difficult to do when you hit a straight draw but it's the type of decision you must have the good judgment to make if you're going to make money being a playmaster in 3bet pots.

I don't like your c/r either, this flop isn't the nut worst flop to c/r bluff in a 3bet pot, but it's probably in the bottom 25% of flops.
11-27-2009, 08:00 AM
Carroters

I think the turn is okay, b/c I bet he's terrible enough to call it off with draws that we beat some of the time.
11-27-2009, 08:33 AM
minSim

I see your reasoning/plan on the flop. But there are quite some considerations before taking a line like this.

PRE: Do you have an idea of his min3bet hands? How confident are you to stack of with TP?

FLOP: Are you sure he folds AK/88 to that small 3bet when you rep so little?

TURN: If so, I don't think the turn is scare at all to his flop continuing range.
If not, I like the turn because you still have a good amount of FE.

Also, I'm not confident this is any better than c/c flop and lead river when turn checks through.
11-27-2009, 08:58 AM
Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by minSim

PRE: Do you have an idea of his min3bet hands? How confident are you to stack of with TP?

His min3bet range is wide. Its 15% after a decent number of hands and Ive seen him show down some crap. Im guessing its something like 77+, any 2 broadways, maybe some of the higher Axs or SCs? Theres also the chance he 3bets actual good hands to a more cromulent size. So yeah im almost never folding top pair.

Quote:

FLOP: Are you sure he folds AK/88 to that small 3bet when you rep so little?

88 Im pretty sure hed fold. AK maybe not since he has to think he has outs.

Quote:

Also, I'm not confident this is any better than c/c flop and lead river when turn checks through.

This could well be true. One thing I thought at the time is I would barrel most of the cards that improve my hand and also a K or Q. But thinking about it now, a lot of the straight draws he calls on the flop have a K or Q in so they are probably pretty bad barrel cards which probably makes the flop raise quite a bit worse.

Anyway he folded, but that probably means I was ahead anyway...