Overpair gets cr´red deepish

Villian seems like an unremarkable TAG, running 23/20 for a couple of orbits. Ive been very active in the BTN and CO to iso the fish in the BB and still SB refused to adjust by calling OTB or 3betting me. I wasnt sure whether or not to 4bet, given that being deepish oop he´d prob play correctly vs a 4bet preflop most of the time.

$0.25/$0.50 Ante $0.10 No Limit Holdem
6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($41.75)
UTG+1 ($104.55)
CO ($57.60)
Hero ($104.85)
SB ($77.35)
BB ($50.35)

Pre-Flop: ($1.35, 6 players) Hero is BTN :kc: :ks:
3 folds, Hero raises to $2, SB raises to $7, 1 fold, Hero calls $5

Flop: :tc: :9s: :8h: ($15.10, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10.50, SB raises to $28

It really isn't that deep. The spr close to what it would be in the same situation 100bb deep in a normal game. With a fish in the bb I wouldn't expect him to ever 3b bluff there pre... nevermind that many tags never 3b bluff the sb ever. With that in mind I would 4b to ~15 pre and get it in pre or on a safe flop. You're not deep enough that he could profitably nutmine.

As played you're only slightly behind 77-AA. he's prolly not 3-betting sc's.
I see random people with reg-ish stats turn tp+draw hands into a bluff so often with lines like this that I'm tempted to shovel. It doesn't make any sense for him to have JJ or QQ though. Unless he's level 1 or below.
Folding definitely isn't a big mistake.
It would take balls of steel to make a c/r bluff with no draw on that board.

And then he's c/raising to under 3x ... I'm sorry. I don't get it. I'm not sure he does either.

Fold.

How much have you been c-betting prior to this? Possible if you have been doing it quite a bit he is trying to just get more value out of JJ or QQ. This is really, really borderline, but I think I say fold, AA and sets pop up way too often

I think I'd prefer to 4bet small pre and give villain the opportunity to be the one to make a mistake.

I feel like an unremarkable regular splits their range here without appreciating they are doing it - I'd expect AA, QQ, JJ, AT kind of hands to cbet because the board is drawy. I'd expect QJ to check/raise, and even though it's a drawy board I wouldn't be surprised for sets and two pair hands to check/raise either because villain will feel slightly more confident with those.

I'd rather fold and make a note of how he played this than give him more manies.

I like your flat of the 3bet and I like your reasoning for it based on the assumptions you made.

This flop doesn't really hit his 3bet range very well (meaning I think the only hand he has that connects with this board is something like TT exactly a lot of the time). I'd put him squarely on JJ-AA -- weight it more heavily towards JJ since it makes more sense for this type of opponent to try to go for a c/r w/ that type of hand.

I mean, if he's thinking at all he should know this flop smacks your 3bet calling range so if he does have a set or a straight it'd be pretty stupid not to bet out expecting to get raised. Yeah, I put him on JJ really often and I'd flat this flop raise looking to get it in on any non Q/J/7 turns.

One other thing about this spot is that if your read is wrong and the turn does come something like a 7 or a J and villain checks to you, you can actually turn your hand into a bluff and bet turn shove river (when the river doesn't pair the board) to get him off a set or whatever. When you are deep and in position you just have lots of options, I really hate folding and just surrendering them.

I love how my advice is always like the exact opposite of what everybody else seems to post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marshall28

I love how my advice is always like the exact opposite of what everybody else seems to post.

---

Hahaha. To be fair you gave me cause to reconsider my opinion, I really appreciate the depth of insight in your post.

I just feel an "unremarkable" tag with a hand like QQ or even AA isn't going to offer us a free card on that kind of board unless we're an absolute bet monkey. Or do you think I am underestimating an "unremarkable" tag?

I dunno, it's something no one can say for sure because it's a question of how he thinks about the game. If he understands how bad it is to bet/3b all in QQ in his spot against anyone sane, then either c/c or c/r become much more viable options. If he doesn't understand that and just thinks "scary board, I have to protect my hand" then I guess he'd likely bet hoping not to have to make a tough decision on the turn.

I never really play in these games, so this is something you should have a better idea about than I do.

Fwiw I wouldnt consider the villian a deep thinker. If he was after all, he could have gotten the best of me for a couple of orbits before this hand by taking advantage of me opening v wide everytime the fish paid a blind. I really cant say what he thinks of me, but if he´s hudbotting he´ll see something like 28/22/2, staying in line and just trying to play a lot vs the weak player.

I'm not kidding, if I was mod I'd actually ban people for not using pokerstove in spots like these. Tilts the hell out of me. Id fold.

edit: that was a bit harsh, but srsly, stove it ppl!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alexos

I'm not kidding, if I was mod I'd actually ban people for not using pokerstove in spots like these. Tilts the hell out of me. Id fold.

edit: that was a bit harsh, but srsly, stove it ppl!

---

Stove it yrself!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marshall28

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alexos

I'm not kidding, if I was mod I'd actually ban people for not using pokerstove in spots like these. Tilts the hell out of me. Id fold.

edit: that was a bit harsh, but srsly, stove it ppl!

---

Stove it yrself!

---

Stove it up yer ass!

lol

fold so damn easy