100NL: flatting KK on BU

Villain is like 21/20 with 10% 3b.

His 3betting range is super wide here so I flat on BU.

Thoughts on raising flop? His turn overshove has me puzzled as I don't have any detailed postflop reads on this guy.

$0.50/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG tombo_pl ($149.75)
CO grimetime23 ($80.20)
BTN Hero ($105.05)
SB umpa21 ($100)
BB AlexMack24 ($100)

Pre-Flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is BTN :kh: :kc:
2 folds, Hero raises to $3, umpa21 raises to $11, 1 fold, Hero calls $8

Flop: :3c: :9c: :qs: ($23, 2 players)
umpa21 bets $18.55, Hero calls $18.55

Turn: :as: ($60.10, 2 players)
umpa21 goes all-in $70.45, $70.45 to Hero ($75.5)?

ooo i really don't like umpa, he is very aggressive and one of my least favorite to play against.

he could have a combo draw here, but that's the worst he could have. i'd fold the turn.

flop raise on this drawy board would have been choice. he wouldn't fold KQ/AQ and will definitely shove JTss/Axcc in that spot.

I remember playing with umpa a while ago.

If I remember correctly, he's prone to spazzing. I'd probably raise flop to $42 and let him do something dumb.

As played, meh it's close. If you think his range is so wide pre, and he'd very likely bet all this combo draws/bluffs like this on the turn, then I don't mind a call.

yeah dont mind a call here.

Given what you said id call. I def would not raise the flop.

why would you ever not small 4ball against him

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

why would you ever not small 4ball against him

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Because I don't think I have the image such that he'll have any good reason to NOT think I have something I wanna stack off with.

he's a complete monkey, he'll stick it in here so light in this situation.

I'm most likely just jamming flop (which would be the plan with a big amount of draws as well). Can someone tell my why I shouldn't?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Given what you said id call. I def would not raise the flop.

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I don't get this.

If we raise the flop, he could probably get it in with a lot worse that doesn't look so bad to him. He will fold out a lot of under pairs and stuff but will still jam with draws and KQ+.

If we flat flop he might not continue betting all his pairs and draws and go into a c/c c/f sorta mode. We also let all his draws which he is betting on the flop get a cheap price to see the turn.

I just don't see him folding out any hands on the flop to a raise that he will continue betting the turn with. By calling him we are giving up some EV.

Its hard to agree or disagree with someone that says to either raise or not raise this type of flop.. and to what size.

Its completely based on your image and how you play so many other hands.

In my spot, I raise fold flops on occasion, so I would raise to 42ish and hope he jams light. Other ppl might jam their draws, so it might make more sense to jam their hand here. Similarly some ppl flat all draws, so it makes sense to call their hand.

It's kinda hard to say whats best for OP in terms of balancing without knowing how he would play so many other hands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

he's a complete monkey, he'll stick it in here so light in this situation.

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He's a winning 100NL player, not a complete spazztard. I suspect like a lot of regs moving up, he might be more spewy at higher stakes, trying to overadjust to the more aggressive games, but he seems to give my 3/4bets a fair bit of respect. I've never had him spazz over one of my 4bets before.

I've been playing a fairly tight (probably TOO tight) 3betting game lately where most of our hands together have been generated so I suspect my 3bet% is low on his HUD and as such he gives me too much respect to just be randomly spazzing out over my 4bets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by griffey24

Its hard to agree or disagree with someone that says to either raise or not raise this type of flop.. and to what size.

Its completely based on your image and how you play so many other hands.

In my spot, I raise fold flops on occasion, so I would raise to 42ish and hope he jams light. Other ppl might jam their draws, so it might make more sense to jam their hand here. Similarly some ppl flat all draws, so it makes sense to call their hand.

It's kinda hard to say whats best for OP in terms of balancing without knowing how he would play so many other hands.

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Agreed.. Good point Griffey.