Was I wrong????

I'm playing on PokerStars.com just the Micro Cash Games .01/.02 Cent(s) Games. I'm a few hands into playing and I pick up J 10:s: . Seat 1 has the Button and Goes all in for .49 Seat 2 Folds. I'm Seat 3. in the BB Now please know that if I were in a tournament or something like that I would never call and all in bet with J 10 Suited or Unsuited but I wasn't in a tournament and I did make the call for .49 Everyone else folded. The Flop Comes
Pot Size $1.04 Total (Includes SB and my BB)

7:d: 3:c: 6:h: The Turn is J:c: The River K:d:

Seat 1 reveals A:h:Q:s:

I win the pot as I spike Jack on the Turn.
Sorry for not saying all the details but this happend like 3 Days ago and I can't remember all of them.

Now the player types in the Chat Area in sarcatically

"Yeah call an all in bet with J 10" than he goes on to call me an "Idiot"

Now I know I'm very new to this game and I don't know if there is some unwritten rule that you aren't supposed to call an all in bet like that or not. I'm really not sure. As I said I would never call that bet if I were in a tournament. What I want to know is was I in the wrong for making the call and winning the pot or was the player just being immature about losing to a weaker starting hand? Please be honest I really want to learn these type of things so I can become a better Poker Player. Any and all input is greatly apprecaited. Thanks You.

Okay.. Well since you are new I don't really know what to say. First off that is a bad call under any conditions. I think there's a section in No Limit Hold 'Em Theory and Practice that talks about calling all in bets preflop, but I haven't gotten to it yet. What you have to think about is the range of cards that they'll be playing the way that they do, then see how your hand compares to their range. The shorter stacked you get the better pot odds you have to make the call, but you're still way to deep to be stacking off J10s preflop. Infact, the only time where you would get it all in is in a tournament (under conditions, of course), but never a cash game. I don't know how he was playing, but you J10s isn't ever really doing good against anyone's preflop shoving range, even at 2nl.

Put villain on a range.

JTs is a drawing hand that plays well in late position with high implied odds. It's not a hand you want to call all-in vs a short-stack (in general).

Btw, don't post the results. If you do people's thoughts on the hand will be skewed and you'll only be getting results orientated advice.

Welcome to the forum.

First step: http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ll-173396.html

Follow the steps involved, and you can tell if this is good or bad.

Some other things to consider include how often someone is to call or raise after you which will surely influence your decision.

I'll be honest I'm really not that good at math and I know these sites don't really give you a whole lot of time to do that kind of Math in the time give. I know I was well dominated and I put them on an Ace easily. I also realize that I had 2 other players to act behind me and I don't know what they were going to do. If I had to do it over again at first I'd not do it but being that I know I got lucky and spiked a J on the Turn I would have to say I would do it again. I think what get's me is that I know this may be a bad way to think and I should probably throw this type of thinking out the window but I watch a lot of Poker Videos on Youtube from WSOP to WPT, High Stakes Poker and Poker After Dark and I've seen numerous times where AA has been busted by a week pair that turned into 3 of a kind so some type of Strait hand. I apprecaite the input and I'll be doing a lot more reading on here to help inprove my play. So just to clarify if I was in the right postion late in a tournament JT Suited would be an ok All in Call?
Thanks Again.

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

I know I was well dominated and I put them on an Ace easily. I also realize that I had 2 other players to act behind me and I don't know what they were going to do.

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Then why are you calling? Plan your hands.

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

If I had to do it over again at first I'd not do it but being that I know I got lucky and spiked a J on the Turn I would have to say I would do it again.

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If you EVER want to be a winning player, you'll stop thinking like this right now. Poker is not about luck, it's about making the right decisions over and over and over, regardless of the outcome or whether "you got lucky". Don't get me wrong, people like you are the part of the reason I've won thousands at this game. But you've obviously came here to learn and stop being a fish, so... (I'm now skeptical this is a ghost handle with a level)

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

I think what get's me is that I know this may be a bad way to think and I should probably throw this type of thinking out the window but I watch a lot of Poker Videos on Youtube from WSOP to WPT, High Stakes Poker and Poker After Dark and I've seen numerous times where AA has been busted by a week pair that turned into 3 of a kind so some type of Strait hand.

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OMG head explodes :cut:

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

I'll be honest I'm really not that good at math and I know these sites don't really give you a whole lot of time to do that kind of Math in the time give. I know I was well dominated and I put them on an Ace easily. I also realize that I had 2 other players to act behind me and I don't know what they were going to do. If I had to do it over again at first I'd not do it but being that I know I got lucky and spiked a J on the Turn I would have to say I would do it again.

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This is not really an +EV decision. Even though you spiked the J on the turn, in the long run - you are an 62/37% underdog in this situation. I maybe suggest using Pokerstove to calculate various preflop scenarios and finding out the equity with these hands. Start reading the articles on the main page regarding position etc. Also read that link JKDS posted.

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

I think what get's me is that I know this may be a bad way to think and I should probably throw this type of thinking out the window but I watch a lot of Poker Videos on Youtube from WSOP to WPT, High Stakes Poker and Poker After Dark and I've seen numerous times where AA has been busted by a week pair that turned into 3 of a kind so some type of Strait hand. I apprecaite the input and I'll be doing a lot more reading on here to help inprove my play. So just to clarify if I was in the right postion late in a tournament JT Suited would be an ok All in Call?

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Even though you see it on TV shows, doesn't mean it is the correct play. What you should be thinking about is the equity of the hand preflop. (playing at micro stakes - you don't really need to play anything other than premium hands). Although, it can vary if the player is loose/donk.

The best advice I can give is:

1. Read articles on here and try to understand the concepts.
2. Use Pokerstove to go over certain scenarios preflop (go over your hand history and see if you are making +EV calls)
3. Use Holdem Manager, PokerTracker or something similar to keep stats, analyse opponents and review your own game.
4. Post hands you are unsure about or come to the iRC :D

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Originally Posted by Horace

The best advice I can give is:

1. watch more high stakes poker
2. move up where they respect your raises

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fyp

@daven, lmfao

I am a very tight player and 9 times out of 10 I will only play the "Premium Hands, with every once in a while I play a so so hand. From now on I will start making better decisions at the Table and try my hardest to change my way of thinking. The only thing I disagree with is I know poker is about making the right decisions I believe luck does play some into it. Maybe with a little more practice and some further education I'll stop thinking this way but I feel I have the worst luck in the world. I'm going to keep reading my book The Illistarted Guide to No Limint Hold Em by Dennis Purdy and see if I can pick up a few more pointers. I still have a lot of problem with the Math in my head in such a short amount of time.

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

I am a very tight player and 9 times out of 10 I will only play the "Premium Hands, with every once in a while I play a so so hand. From now on I will start making better decisions at the Table and try my hardest to change my way of thinking. The only thing I disagree with is I know poker is about making the right decisions I believe luck does play some into it. Maybe with a little more practice and some further education I'll stop thinking this way but I feel I have the worst luck in the world. I'm going to keep reading my book The Illistarted Guide to No Limint Hold Em by Dennis Purdy and see if I can pick up a few more pointers. I still have a lot of problem with the Math in my head in such a short amount of time.

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What hands you can play preflop and how you should play them depend a lot on position, who's behind you, who's already entered the pot, stack sizes, images, and reads. Luck is really a rediculous concept if you're a long term player. Obviously if you play 100 thousand hands at any level, you'll see the same situations over and over again. Making the right decisions will increase your winrate over a large sample size. Math done in the heat of the moment should be pot odds/implied odds. You can look over spoon's thread if you don't know how to estimate these quickly at http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ad-180192.html.
To find the EV of plays like calling an all in, you need to be able to put your opponet on a range of cards. If google and download pokerstove, you can put in your own cards, and your opponets range, and find the equity you have in the pot.

Ok so that helps me lead to my next question. How do I know when to play a good hand like Big Slick and when to keep an throw away suited connectors or cards like 8 9 Off suit. I just got on PokerStars and played one hand where I threw away J 3 Off suit and the Flop came 3 3 J. I felt like I real DONKEY on that one. I had Big Slick twice in just the short amount of time that I played one was Suited the other Wasn't and played them both correctly I guess becasue I won both of those hands.?

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

Ok so that helps me lead to my next question. How do I know when to play a good hand like Big Slick and when to keep an throw away suited connectors or cards like 8 9 Off suit. I just got on PokerStars and played one hand where I threw away J 3 Off suit and the Flop came 3 3 J. I felt like I real DONKEY on that one. I had Big Slick twice in just the short amount of time that I played one was Suited the other Wasn't and played them both correctly I guess becasue I won both of those hands.?

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That is always going to happen at some stage. However, you cannot really plan it. Just think about the long run. J 3o is not really a profitable hand, you get beaten by a wide range and there is no straight/flush possibilities. As above, just read and apply the theory to your poker game. Try also reviewing sessions and see where you went wrong, if it was an +EV or -EV decision you made.

The results of the hand doesn't change the correct decisions throughout the hand. Knowing why you're playing a hand can help show you if you should play it or not and how to play it. If you really can't answer the question of why folding J3o was the right decision when the flop came J33, then you have some serious fundamental issues that I don't think practice will help you with.

read this:

http://www.gamblingsystem.biz/books/2p2NL6max.pdf

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Originally Posted by Imthenewfish

The results of the hand doesn't change the correct decisions throughout the hand. Knowing why you're playing a hand can help show you if you should play it or not and how to play it. If you really can't answer the question of why folding J3o was the right decision when the flop came J33, then you have some serious fundamental issues that I don't think practice will help you with.

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Well I absolutley know to throw away J3 as a starting hand suited or not but I seem to do that type of stuff a lot. I'l have Q2 or K2 and the Flop wiill come like 229 or something like that and I'll have thrown away 3 of a kind. Now I know its a good play not to play K2 or something like that but how do I know when those typ of cards are coming? I mean you can't always just play AA or AK or AQ or KK can and be successful can you?

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

I mean you can't always just play AA or AK or AQ or KK can and be successful can you?

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Many nits play QQ,JJ,TT,AJs, and PP's for set value. That's about it though, and they can be profitable until a certain level.

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

How do I know when to play a good hand like Big Slick and when to keep an throw away cards like 8 9 Off suit. I

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at da 2enelles? always, and always

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

Well I absolutley know to throw away J3 as a starting hand suited or not but I seem to do that type of stuff a lot. I'l have Q2 or K2 and the Flop wiill come like 229 or something like that and I'll have thrown away 3 of a kind. Now I know its a good play not to play K2 or something like that but how do I know when those typ of cards are coming? I mean you can't always just play AA or AK or AQ or KK can and be successful can you?

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This almost has to be a level right?

The Dude abides.

:confused:
i'm so lost right now.. is this a real thread?

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

Well I absolutley know to throw away J3 as a starting hand suited or not but I seem to do that type of stuff a lot. I'l have Q2 or K2 and the Flop wiill come like 229 or something like that and I'll have thrown away 3 of a kind. Now I know its a good play not to play K2 or something like that but how do I know when those typ of cards are coming? I mean you can't always just play AA or AK or AQ or KK can and be successful can you?

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First -- you can *never* know when cards like that will hit the flop -- that's the whole point of poker. There is an element of chance -- not luck -- chance can be evaluated using statistics.

Now -- what is the chance that your random hand will flop trips? I think it works out to something like 1 in 136 (I could be wildly off here, but let's assume this number is right). Do you like those odds?

Taking it a step further -- that means you have to win, on average, 135 times your investment to come out ahead in the long run, assuming that you always fold if you don't hit trips on the flop. Do you think that on a board like 229 that you will be able to get someone else to commit at least 135 times whatever you bet originally? Do you even have that much in your stacks when you bet preflop?

Ok, so I get that I made bad choice even though I ended up winning the hand. So what you're saying I need to weigh the odds of what I have in my hand Vs Pot Size, All in Bet Size, as well as Position? Is that correct??

(For those of you are asking if this is a real thread or something like that) Yes this is a real thread I'm just very new and need to learn. Sorry. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

Ok, so I get that I made bad choice even though I ended up winning the hand. So what you're saying I need to weigh the odds of what I have in my hand Vs Pot Size, All in Bet Size, as well as Position? Is that correct??

(For those of you are asking if this is a real thread or something like that) Yes this is a real thread I'm just very new and need to learn. Sorry. Thanks.

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That's correct, along with other factors such as the type of opponent you are up against. Read the articles in the digest stickied in the Beginner's Circle to build your fundamentals.

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

Ok, so I get that I made bad choice even though I ended up winning the hand. So what you're saying I need to weigh the odds of what I have in my hand Vs Pot Size, All in Bet Size, as well as Position? Is that correct??

(For those of you are asking if this is a real thread or something like that) Yes this is a real thread I'm just very new and need to learn. Sorry. Thanks.

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i'm sorry, i didn't mean it to come off as rude..
i was just confused by the "when do we know what cards are coming" part... but as explained already, and done so very well, you need to figure out your odds, equity, and so forth to play winning poker.

Best bet is just keep reading on here. There is ALOT of stuff to learn and there isn't much that you won't find on these pages of this forum. If you read and practice you will come back to this post and understand why it's kindof lol.. :clap:

Cool, thanks. I'll just keep reading and practicing and stat playing a lot better and tighter.

Santo: It's not big deal I just didn't wany anyone on here thinking I was just posting nonsence just to cram up the boards or anything. Thanks for the help.

yeah, we've had alot of that lately, that's why i thought maybe it was a joke or suttin..
but good luck! you've come to the right place

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

Well I absolutley know to throw away J3 as a starting hand suited or not but I seem to do that type of stuff a lot. I'l have Q2 or K2 and the Flop wiill come like 229 or something like that and I'll have thrown away 3 of a kind. Now I know its a good play not to play K2 or something like that but how do I know when those typ of cards are coming? I mean you can't always just play AA or AK or AQ or KK can and be successful can you?

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You can play a more hands and still be considered a tight aggressive player, but you have to know the situations and how to play them.

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Originally Posted by everyone

*this whole post*

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fucking LOL :doh:

WOW!!,, What a difference. At first I thought I was just doing something wrong when I took everyone's advice but I got back on today and tried and I actually profitted today. A HUGE Thanks to EVERYONE!!

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

WOW!!,, What a difference. At first I thought I was just doing something wrong when I took everyone's advice but I got back on today and tried and I actually profitted today. A HUGE Thanks to EVERYONE!!

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How large was the new sample? No offense but it was probably a heater.

You're aboslutley right it was just a heater because the past couple days I'm losing my @$$. I'm trying to play only the stronger hand except for a weaker pair here and there but I'm able to get away form them without losing much money if my hand doesn't hit. I don't know if I just make bad decisions or bad decisions at the worng time but It hasn't been good since my last post. Maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I think you may be swinging your judgements too fast. I mean how many hands have you played when you were on a heater? how many now that your swinging down? You can't say you are an unprofitable (or a profitable) player after 2k hands.

I'll be honest I don't play many hands on PokerStars whether I win or I lose becanse still stuck on me just having the worst luck in the world. There are days when I do really good and then there is most days where I just thinking I shouldn't be playing at all. I'm actually at the table for about 50 to 100 Hands and I'd have to say (and I'm just guessing) I actually play way less then half those hands. What sucks is that I really enjoy playing Poker but I really suck at it. I'm just not doing something right.

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

I'll be honest I don't play many hands on PokerStars whether I win or I lose becanse still stuck on me just having the worst luck in the world. There are days when I do really good and then there is most days where I just thinking I shouldn't be playing at all. I'm actually at the table for about 50 to 100 Hands and I'd have to say (and I'm just guessing) I actually play way less then half those hands. What sucks is that I really enjoy playing Poker but I really suck at it. I'm just not doing something right.

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How much less than half? An actual number would be very helpful to know. If you have PT or HEM, look at your VPIP stat.

For example, if you're playing full-ring and involved in 30% of the hands at your table -- you're probably not playing tight enough. It would also be good to check your VPIP at each position. If you are playing the same % of hands in UTG as you are on the button, then you need to learn how to modify your starting range based on your position at the table (hint: play less hands in earlier positions).

Ok, so If I am at the table for say 50 hands I' usually play 10 to 20. If I stick it out to be at the table for 100 plays I'll probably play around 25 to 35. Like I said I don't play to many hands a day on PStars becasue even If I am winning I don't like to press my luck to much and have given everything I earned back. So in a way I guess I play Scared Poker. I know I shouldn't play that way but I'm not a wealthy person by any means I live Pay Check to Pay Check so I don't have a whole lot of money to play Poker with. Hopefully this helps. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

Ok, so If I am at the table for say 50 hands I' usually play 10 to 20. If I stick it out to be at the table for 100 plays I'll probably play around 25 to 35. Like I said I don't play to many hands a day on PStars becasue even If I am winning I don't like to press my luck to much and have given everything I earned back.

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in the short term luck will be a factor , in the long term making the right play for the right reason will make you money. Concentrate on making the right play for the right reasons and forget about how lucky/unlucky you are.

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So in a way I guess I play Scared Poker. I know I shouldn't play that way but I'm not a wealthy person by any means I live Pay Check to Pay Check so I don't have a whole lot of money to play Poker with. Hopefully this helps. Thanks.

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practise bankroll management to help minimize the risk to your bankroll and play atthe stake you are rolled for. Make your move ups more conservatively so that you have more buyins at the new stake before you have to drop down.

Have you got poker tracker or holdem manager ? use the free trial on both of them or look at options that get it for you free obn their websites. (probably entails you missing out on bonuses or rakeback though depending on site)

I can access my history over the past 60 days. I don't see a Holdem Manager or Poker Tracker. I haven't been moving up since I started on PStars, I've been sticking with the .01/.02 Cent Games from the start. I know I missed out on my first deposit bonus but I'm really not sure how to acces those things. I guess I'm still pretty new.

Never mind the history is for my account not the hands I've played or anything.

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Originally Posted by Dimaline312000

I can access my history over the past 60 days. I don't see a Holdem Manager or Poker Tracker. I haven't been moving up since I started on PStars, I've been sticking with the .01/.02 Cent Games from the start. I know I missed out on my first deposit bonus but I'm really not sure how to acces those things. I guess I'm still pretty new.

Never mind the history is for my account not the hands I've played or anything.

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You have to download pokertracker or holdem manager from their sites, just google one of them and download a trial

Don't play poker.

^^ srz


No hard feelings, but if you have questions like "How do I know which cards will come?"... it's not for you.

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Originally Posted by oskar

Don't play poker.

^^ srz


No hard feelings, but if you have questions like "How do I know which cards will come?"... it's not for you.

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I understand what you are saying but I think I'm still just very new to this once I learn some more information abut the game and if I'm still struggling than I can see how you may be right and I should just walk a way from it. I enjoy playing Poker but I just don't have a lot of the knowledge that you folks have. If I can learn more stuff I think I can get it. If for some reason I can't get it I'll come back and you can say I told you so.

Ok, at least you seem to have the right attitude. But you're starting from zero. You need to start by understanding hand rankings. What equity one hand has against another before the flop, and the flop, on the turn and river. You best start by finding out what equity is, and how it is calculated.
Get PokerStove: Poker Software and Analysis and just play around with it for a while. I would advise against getting Holdem Manager or Poker Tracker just yet. It will just seem overwhelming and not make too much sense.

For example take J:s: T:s: and A:c:T:d: and run them through pokerstove. Then take some random flop like 9:s:3:s:T:h: and see how they rank up now. What about 9:c:3:c:T:h:? What about 3:d:4:d:5:s: ?
Every time you see a flop think: what's the best possible hand to have there... what's the second best? What hands could my opponents have, and how does my hand rank up against those hands, and so on.


Think about simple stuff like: Why are there blinds? What hands would I play if there weren't any blinds? What size should I bet and why? How does the size of the bet I face influence the hands that I can call with? Should I play differently when my stack is bigger/smaller in relation to the blinds, and why?

I'm learning the rank of the starting hands by the book I'm reading and their relative win rate. I will get pokerstove and mess arond with it a little bit I really think I need to understand more of the terms of the game as well like VBet and Hero Vs Villian and other trems and phrases like that. I'm learning early position and late postion. One of the biggest things I've learned just in the past week or so was the fact that I was playing to lose and playing hands that I shouldn't even mess around with. I don't know if it's going to matter seeing as I got a Voice Mail saying that Visa and Master Card are compling with some type of Unlawful Internet Gambling Act and that all Visa and Master Card Credit Cards can't be used for Internet Gambling so I won't be able to redeposit any more money. I'll have to see if I can find another way to play on PStars.com. Thanks for the help.

Write your congressman that you want online poker to be legalized.

^^ srz

:)

Or just don't lose your deposit..

I like both of your ideas but I'm just not sure how I can not lose my deposit with it being down to $2.95 now.

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Originally Posted by dimaline312000

i like both of your ideas but i'm just not sure how i can not lose my deposit with it being down to $2.95 now.

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brm

you guys are killing me with these initials what is srz and brm mean??

brm = bankroll management

brm= bankroll management

in all fairness it does take a while to learn all of the acronyms used here ldfo

First things first, stop playing poker for now. Seriously just read and get some basics down first before you go practice. Plus with 2 bucks your not rolled for anything anyway.

Go here:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...re-123008.html

read, learn, and be merry. Just make sure you actually understand and apply the material.

After you got that down and have proper bankroll then get back in the game.