1/2 - couple KKs c/r'ed

1. Villain is spazzy and terrible running 20/14/3.2 over a huge sample, folds to 3bets 49%, raises cbets 27%!

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

UTG ($406.15)
Hero (MP) ($226.60)
CO ($201.65)
Button ($200)
SB ($307.35)
BB ($304.40)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K:club:, K:heart:
1 fold, Hero bets $6, CO raises to $18, 3 folds, Hero raises to $44, CO calls $26

Flop: ($91) 9:heart:, A:diamond:, A:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $33, CO raises to $66, Hero...


2. Villain is a relative unknown, running 22/19/1.5 over 150 hands but has lost a couple buyins over that small sample, so I assume he's bad. He's called both times he's been 3bet and gone to showdown 10/20, losing 7/10.


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

UTG ($308.20)
MP ($212.75)
CO ($219.40)
Hero (Button) ($403.85)
SB ($216.40)
BB ($200)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K:spade:, K:heart:
UTG bets $8, 2 folds, Hero raises to $28, 2 folds, UTG calls $20

Flop: ($59) Q:diamond:, 5:club:, 7:spade: (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $40, UTG calls $40

Turn: ($139) 3:diamond: (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $80, UTG raises to $180, Hero...

fold first, puke 2nd

I'd call the first, I think a guy like that will give you a lot more information on the turn - timing/sizing etc, and it's not as though he's incapable of bluffing in this spot considering his raise cbet, and also the amount you bet on the flop will increase his bluffing frequency I assume. That being said, there aren't many realistic combos of hands he can be bluffing with considering you have 2 K's.

I think the second one if a fold, he's a tag with a tiny 3 bet which means you rarely see AQ here.

re think your line in hand 2

also assuming someone is 'bad' because they are down 2 buyins over 150 hands is pretty ridiculous. thinking like this won't help you play better against him in any way so it's pretty unnecessary to be using a statement like this on anyone to describe their game.

Yeah I think calling hand 1 is fine and re-evaluate like toad said. Hand 2 is probably a shove given he's frustrated? Very gross. If he had just shoved it'd be an easy snap but that amount screams value. A fold vs most other opponents.

How can we fold in hand one??? Turn card and action please?

Hand 2 is ugly.

hand 1 I call flop and check get it in whatever he does on turn.

hand 2 is ouch, I prolly check behind turn for PC because if you don't think he has AQ in his range why are you betting? And if he does have AQ here he might check-raise the 5 of the 16 combos needed to make this a call vs sets + AA, so I might get it in but I'm a station.

hand 1)
- with your sizing and his tendencies fold isn't option
- bet/shove in this spot looks really strong to me, so I would just call


hand 2)
- with his small AF and money behind, I don't think he has just Q or draw
- I would probably call vs shove, but want to fold this

Hand 1 - I'd call and re-eval vs this type of player for sure. Just like I would call with any Ax hand here and probably quite a few pairs.

Hand 2 - agree with Rav, snap calling if he ships but his sizing makes me sick now.

hand 1 seems like easiest call in the world just based on the fact that you said he's spewy, raises lots of cbets and doesn't fold to 3bs, so I doubt he's folding to ur 4b sizing here not to say it's wrong ofcourse. A 3b range is kind of important here though because if he's 3bing a tonne of Ax IP then never folding to the 4b obviously not folding becomes a lot worst but if he's flatting AQ/AJ and suited aces IP and not 3bing those then obviously call/calling becomes really good.

hand 2 what hands did he call down with in the other 2 hands? if he was calling down w/ TPTK then on a board w/ a draw or 2 then stacking off here could become really bad unless you think he's capable of c/cing flop w/ some type of draw or pair + backdoor draw then c/rai turn to some weird number where he should be shoving.

edit - oh and I think him losing a BI or 2 over 150 hands is super irrelevant since his stats indicate he's some type of reg. he could be up 25 BI in his other games and playing really well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

also assuming someone is 'bad' because they are down 2 buyins over 150 hands is pretty ridiculous. thinking like this won't help you play better against him in any way so it's pretty unnecessary to be using a statement like this on anyone to describe their game.

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meh, since I know every reg and semi-reg in these games I assume any unknown is bad, esp when they have any questionable stats (here, fold to 3b, AF, WTSD, W$SD). Obv those stats require a larger sample size to draw any firm conclusions, but over the years, assuming unknowns are fish has worked quite well for me.

Thanks for the input all. Results:

1) I spite-shoved and he had AQs
2) I folded and felt pretty good about it

ship 2, call 1 and c/f turn.

Hand 1: I'd call for sure, I think whether or not to call another bet is close.

Hand 2: I'd just fold. I get it in everytime here and I'm always wrong. Are we just assuming he has AQ or KQ here?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zook

meh, since I know every reg and semi-reg in these games I assume any unknown is bad, esp when they have any questionable stats (here, fold to 3b, AF, WTSD, W$SD). Obv those stats require a larger sample size to draw any firm conclusions, but over the years, assuming unknowns are fish has worked quite well for me.

Thanks for the input all. Results:

1) I spite-shoved and he had AQs
2) I folded and felt pretty good about it

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Boo to spite shoving! If you decide you don't believe him and are willing to get it in, if anything you should spite call and spite c/c his turn shove.

But yah fold is close to call flop and both are >>>>> shove. The only hand you'd reasonably expect to get it in here with that you beat is hearts, but I feel as though on this particular board, hearts would just shove and not min-raise. He's pretty polarized to complete complete air (QJo or some bs) and Ax. Might as well even let him hit his "6 outer" to QJ, and potentially get a small river bet out of him, if he checks turn.

cant fold to a minraise on flop in hand 1 so call flop, lets seea turn

hand 2 is tough, im not sure.

1) call, c/f turn
2)Probably get it in vs this guy here, but generally I'd fold 100bb deep or more.

we're c/shoving or c/calling a heart in hand 1 on the turn yes? c/folding a blank?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexos

2)Probably get it in vs this guy here, but generally I'd fold 100bb deep or more.

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we're 150bb deep

ohhh thought it was 2/4 for some reason..

yuckkk this is close but i'd fold too

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ravageur

we're c/shoving or c/calling a heart in hand 1 on the turn yes? c/folding a blank?

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probably c/folding to further action. If our reasoning is he will give up w/out an Ace on the turn, then we don't have odds to c/c his shove on a heart.