5nl

After almost 30,000 hands at 2nl, I finally moved up to 5nl lastnight. I thought it'd be good for me to keep a little journal here to track my progress and hopefully get some feedback on my play. I moved up slightly under rolled at 20 buy-ins and am prepared to move back down if needed.

I played 5 tables over a couple hours for about 500 hands, ran really well and went up 2 buys. I mostly just wanted to get a feel for the stake and played super tight, trying to be observant to see if I could tell any differences from 2nl. The biggest difference I found was a higher fold to 3bet pecentage, but it was only 500 hands so I'll keep my eye on that. I started playing pretty late so I shut it down and went to bed happy.

I'll post my stats from 2nl and some graphs later but I wanted to throw out these from 5nl now. I know this is a stupid small sample but I wanted to get this thing started.

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/751/5nlstats.png

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6674/5nlgragh.png

That's is nano sized sample and means nothing. But, that aside, congrats. And i wish you the best of luck.

Yeah, I didn't have time earlier, so here's my last 10,000h, which I think is pertinent to how I'm playing at the moment.
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/5931/10000hstats.png

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/193/10000hgragh.png

This is from the day one, but again the first 17,000h aren't really relavent.
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5273/allhstats.png

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1348/allhgraph.png

I'd appreciate any criticism, constructive or otherwise, and invite surviva to troll for post count here also.

Steal less from SB steal more from BU.

your stats from last 10k hands look pretty damn good for a 2-5nl player imo, and your results reflect this. i agree with !Luck in that you would probably show greater profit if you stole blinds more in LP, but don't jump into this - do some study on the topic and then slowly integrate more hands into your blind stealing range as your become more comfortable playing pots postflop without just the top 12% of starting hands.

if you're interested in checking this out search
"raising behind limpers"
"blind stealing 101"
"blind stealing 102"

all are posts by spoon. well worth checking out. not sure of the exact titles but they're probably in the digest.

oh by the way, i like stealing from the SB alot against nits who seem to play by conservative hand-charts and never adjust. you'll probably encounter these more and more at 5nl and 10nl than at 2nl. just beware that their range is far stronger than yours. ie if you open A6s in SB and a 8/6 with 94% fold BB to steal over infinite sample flats you, his range dominates yours and you don't necessarily have to try to force him to fold anything postflop because your preflop blind steal was already really profitable and exploitative of the fact that he folds to steals way too much, plus gets no action when he calls because we know he's a nit and his range is strong. that was a bit spontaneous and long-winded. sorry if its confusing.
good luck man.

Thanks for the replies and advice guys.

I think I like how and when I'm stealing from the sb right now. I think I'm getting enough fold equity as long as I play fit/fold when I get called as rpm pointed out. My actual losses their come from hittng some crappy pair and calling to showdown, so obv work to be done there. I'll definately keep my eye on it tho and re-evaluate if need be.

rpm, I have read those articles but I will reread them. I'm sure they'll have more meaning now. Actually, now that I think about it, I need to reread alot of the articles in the digest. I also still need to dive back in to Pirsigs' book. I was also wondering if you've read Lila, and what you thought about it. I haven't yet but I thought it was worth a read sometime.

Back on subject, ohmgaw crappy session today. Stacked off 3 times with pocket aces, twice all-in pre and and once when I ran into a set of queens. Finished the session down only 1 1/2 buys but damn, it still leaves a queasy feeling in your tum tum. Plus there's the fact that I can only do that a couple times before I move back down.

I'm gonna try to post some hands here next time, focusing on what I'm sure is my biggest leak, putting villain on a range. Stay tuned, it should be fun.

I suspect at the lower limits like 5nl and 2nl open limping pocket pairs is profitable, but you really need to close that gap (vp/pfr) as you move up.

!luck

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by !Luck

I suspect at the lower limits like 5nl and 2nl open limping pocket pairs is profitable, but you really need to close that gap (vp/pfr) as you move up.

!luck

---

!luck, are you looking at the 10,000 hand stats or my lifetime stats? I've worked pretty hard to get it from 20/12 to the 13/9 that it is now. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. Also, I never open limp, and I don't think it's profitable at any stakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by supahaole

rpm, I have read those articles but I will reread them. I'm sure they'll have more meaning now. Actually, now that I think about it, I need to reread alot of the articles in the digest. I also still need to dive back in to Pirsigs' book. I was also wondering if you've read Lila, and what you thought about it. I haven't yet but I thought it was worth a read sometime.

Back on subject, ohmgaw crappy session today. Stacked off 3 times with pocket aces, twice all-in pre and and once when I ran into a set of queens. Finished the session down only 1 1/2 buys but damn, it still leaves a queasy feeling in your tum tum. Plus there's the fact that I can only do that a couple times before I move back down.

---

i havent read lila but i found zen and the art of MM pretty damn interesting so i should check it out. as for the run-bad sesion, i know it's said time and time again, but those hands where you got AA in pre should be the VERY least of your poker worries, assuming you are adequately rolled. and getting 100bb in with an overpair (ie on the Qxx board) is going to certainly show a profit against most of the villain's at your stake. i know it sucks when you aren't putting in much volume because it's a substantial amount of grinding to win back the money lost on the two 80% all-in preflop scenarios. but seriously, it only sucks as much as you let it affect your ability to play the next hand with the highest EV you possibly can given your current skill set.
/rant. gl

I was looking at the wrong sample. However, even in the smaller 10k sample your EP2 VP is 12.3 and PFR is 10.4. Which implies open limping, right?

-!luck

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by !Luck

I was looking at the wrong sample. However, even in the smaller 10k sample your EP2 VP is 12.3 and PFR is 10.4. Which implies open limping, right?

-!luck

---

Yes, I probably was for a bit in the early stages of that sample, and I was lying when I said I never do, because I still have to slap myself when I catch myself doing so. But yeah, never (mostly). :D

Short session today but I got the money in good for the most part so I feel pretty good about it. Up a buy-in and with cashing in a $10 stellar reward I'm edging closer to a proper roll.

I've been trying to keep myself down to 4 tables. I have more time to think about my choices and I make better decisions, but I also find my mind wandering alot. I think I'll start adding a table or two when I catch myself doing so. I'd like to get in more volume but I need to be focusing on reads and whatnot more right now.

Ranges-

Ranges are screwing with me. I'm getting better at assigning ranges when their fairly obvious but for the most part I keep getting lost. When I'm facing a big decision I'll take a look at the hud and any notes I may have (another issue all together) and somewhere in the process my mind goes blank. I'm sure that it's a time and practice issue. I'll continue practicing with stove and keep trying while I'm playing and I'm sure it will get easier in time. Any tips would be appreciated.

The flip side of failing to apply a range is failing to use the information even when I know for a fact what villains range is.

Example-

Villain is 31/1 over something like 500 hands and raises to 4bb from utg. Folds around to me otb and I call w/99 for set value. I know villain has AA. Not QQ+, KK+ but AA, so the plan is to see a flop and fold if I don't hit my set. Easy yeah?

Flop comes A9x and villain bets 1/4 pot. It's a cheap call but since I know he's holding AA it's a clear fold. Do I fold? No. Why? I honestly don't know. I know the plan had to change because I hit my set, but I was still behind so I should fold. So now I'm thinking villain may have KK in his range. Wrong, villain didn't have KK in his range preflop, so he doesn't have it in his range now. Anyway, I call these little 1/4-1/2 pot bets to the river and villain shows AA.

So yeah, assign villain a range and stick to it. Narrow it down after each street and adjust it to villains tendencies, but ignoring it is just gonna cost you money. The End.

"The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling."
— Robert M. Pirsig

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
Roller coasters are fun. Graghs are too!!!

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7914/5nlgargh.png

Up until recently, my method of table selection has been to sit at whatever tables I can find with 8 players and a high avg pot. A couple days ago I started looking for tables that had a high % of players seeing the flop and joining the waiting list. It's killing me in terms of non showdown winnings. I know the redline conversations been done, but I'm just getting pwned there right now.

There are two problems I keep encountering. First, opportunities to steal are way less frequent because it seems that I have little or no fold equity, and the second is that most of the time I raise, I get 3bet and end up folding alot of the time. I'm at the point where I want to start calling 3bets w/ AQ and 88. I don't think 4betting works here cos I'm sure I'm gettting called alot w/ 99+ or whatever.

As I'm writing this I realize how utterly stupid it sounds, we want people calling 4bets w/ 99, and I'm showing a small but positive winrate, but it seems like I'm throwing away money alot when I shouldn't be.

So I either need to learn how to adjust to these tables or go back to my previous table selection method. Is it possible I should move back down and try the same thing at 2nl? Maybe buy-in deep? Dunno.

It would be great to hear some thoughts on the subject.

If the blinds are 3 betting you a ton, stop stealing with 89s or Kxs or other hands. Or if you can't handle it pick a different table.

!luck

Supahole, around the time I was starting 5NL (as you are now) I was given a pretty nice bit of advice by yaawn - start your own tables.

HU isn't likely to last long, and you're pretty much guaranteed to get at least 3 droolers on the table before it fills up. Besides, it's probably worthwhile for you to work on your HU and shorthanded game at this stage in your development. Alternatively, you can try joining very short tables (<6 players).

Yeah, I think adjusting my steal range is a given but the issue is alot deeper than that. Starting tables is something that I've been thinking about for a while so it must be time to dive in. I think what I'm gonna do is move down for 1 session a day (provided I have the time for at least 2 sessions) and make those kinds of changes @2nl. Maybe play some 6 max or hu, as well as starting tables, to start rounding myself out. Thanks Penney, you too !Luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penneywize

Supahole, around the time I was starting 5NL (as you are now) I was given a pretty nice bit of advice by yaawn - start your own tables.

HU isn't likely to last long, and you're pretty much guaranteed to get at least 3 droolers on the table before it fills up. Besides, it's probably worthwhile for you to work on your HU and shorthanded game at this stage in your development. Alternatively, you can try joining very short tables (<6 players).

---

yeah just join like 10 empty tables and play the regfish HU

most of the time when i start tables i find i'm playing against complete droolers. i only really jump in queue for tables if they look particularly good. even then if the seat i'm offered 1,2,3 or even 4 seats to the right of the main drooler(s) i'll bail and go to the back of the line.

I think starting tables at 2NL just to get used to playing shorthanded and HU is a great idea for improving your overall game. Also get in IRC so we can talk about some of the stuff you find difficult.

Starting tables, LDO. After an initial donk call by me (set of queens vs a flush) starting tables payed off well. I bought in deep, started 10 tables and watched them fill up with fish. It was almost sad to see how bad the majority of the players we're. I'll keep doing this but I need to start working on my table selection too. I think I also need to learn to leave a table sooner when the fishiness runs low. The action kinda flatlined after about 600 hands. I'll be keeping an eye on that try to dump the bad ones and start new ones when I notice the tables getting tighter. I need to work on my heads up but the tables filled up so fast I didn't get much practice. I think I'll try a couple hu sngs for cheap sometime this week. Thanks for the push guys.

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/4063/starttables.png

Hoopy, I'll get in the irc some more. I've been avoiding it mostly because my demeanor sucks right now due to my personal life and I get seriously tilted in there. I have a ton of respect for everyone in there but it's a harsh environment, which counter-productive to my sanity at the moment. I'll pop in and say hi tho.

Haven't had many positive things to add in here as the proverbial shit has hit the fan in my personal life. Life is hard sometimes and I've been in some pretty rough spots before but something positive needs to happen soon or I'm gonna seriously fucking lose it.

3am this morning, I'm asleep on the couch coz my sleep schedge is all fucked up (coz I'm stressing on shit or whatever) and some douchebag throws a brick through my living room window. The brick lands like 3 feet away from my head and theres glass all over the fucking livingroom. I have alot of friends in the neighborhood and my family is generally well liked and respected in town so it seems like some random who just felt like fucking up someones shit. Problem is out of all the houses near me, my window's the most out of the and not directly facing the street so Idk.

The more logical scenario is my wifes ex. He's a bi-polar paranoid scitsofrenic who was recently (wthin 2 weeks) released from jail for lighting my truck on fire and hiding so that when I came out he could stangle me with a bungee cord. I know, who does that shit? However, after talking to my daughter (his biological daughter), he seems to be taking his meds and is acting generally healthy which goes against his M O. When he's crazy and capable of doing crazy shit it's blatenly obvious.

So whatever, fuck that guy and fuck whoever threw that brick through my window, it's one more thing I really didn't need to deal with in my life right now.

I'm gonna come back and rant some more in bit and I might even say something poker related. But for right now I might just use this thead as a sounding board to get some shit off my chest.

Geeeeez :(

Pretty messed up stuff...sorry

Thanks kmind, I don't like putting my shit out there like that but I have no one to scream at right now so I might as well use this as an outlet.

On an upnote, I finished 5th in the FTR300 at fulltilt for $22.50 which brings my br there to a whopping $22.95. I'm gonna keep playing freerolls there and start adding some mtts and sngs and see if I can build a decent bankroll from nothing. Need to work on my tourneys anyway.

Gonna play some 2nl 6max later today. I'm hudless for awhile and quite frankly 4tabling is boring as hell now. Maybe a little more action there.