5NL Rush 6max, oop and deep with TP on drawy board

I'm not sure how I played this hand, probably not very good, but I don't see where I went wrong. Do you like a b/f on the river more than the c/c? Most importantly, do you change your river c/c plan to c/f when villain basically shoves?

No reads on villain. He's new to me but he did limp/call pre so probably loose-passive.

Preflop, normally I don't like isolating oop but I was hoping to get it in with the super shorty on my left. Of course the big stack calls too.

Flop, I make top pair on a scary board and bet smallish. Big stack calls. I think he could have any ace, or pair + str8 draw, or fd, or better of course.

Turn, All the draws miss, so I bet again.

River, I make trips but that doesn't really change anything. I was gonna bet/fold but then decided to check/call instead to get value from missed draws and guarantee a showdown. But then villain overbets the pot, obv really scary. I called because that was the plan. Is the call reasonable or just horrible?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Hero (SB) ($8.25)
BB ($0.66)
UTG ($3.90)
MP ($5.76)
CO ($22.28)
Button ($2.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif
2 folds, CO calls $0.05, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.25, BB calls $0.20, CO calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.75) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $0.45, 1 fold, CO calls $0.45

Turn: ($1.65) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.20, CO calls $1.20

River: ($4.05) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $5.90, Hero calls $5.90

Total pot: $15.85 | Rake: $1.05

edit: i didn't see that it was rush to start with

fold pre, check-fold flop, block-fold river $2

as played river needs more reads than you got. Like, he thinks A6 is the nuts here sometimes, he bluffs Qc7c here sometimes, he has A4 sometimes - this is a tough decision that even small pieces of information make infinitely easier. It probably doesn't matter much whether you call or fold, i think fold cos he's gone to some effort with his betsizing rather than simply mashing the bet-pot button.

Yeah, it's pretty bad. Now I think b/f would have been much better against a passive player, and c/c might be better against a bad tag. Of course the bet sizing gives it away, but I couldn't switch gears in the middle of the hand, totally my mistake. I was good on the flop though, lol.

Ya fold pre, but post, bet bet bet is fine.

small raise pre maybe 3bb...

dont cbet the flop

c/f turn.... you only beat A2-A8 here except A4.... you have a prob made straight ( QJ) and 2 pairs, A4, AK,A10, K10, and you get beat by AQ,AJ all playable cards in CO even if he did limp first, you have no reads on him so dont exclude them
in my opinion is a bad play.

if you won you got lucky, i would have folded since flop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razvan729

small raise pre maybe 3bb...

dont cbet the flop

c/f turn.... you only beat A2-A8 here except A4.... you have a prob made straight ( QJ) and 2 pairs, A4, AK,A10, K10, and you get beat by AQ,AJ all playable cards in CO even if he did limp first, you have no reads on him so dont exclude them
in my opinion is a bad play.

if you won you got lucky, i would have folded since flop.

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Why raise pre and shutdown on the flop as your post suggest? That's flawed logic IMO.

c/c is fine i'm not folding to an overbet either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DBRose

Why raise pre and shutdown on the flop as your post suggest? That's flawed logic IMO.

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so should he be betting the flop for value or as a bluff? what's villain's calling range? etc....

I'm pretty nitty and don't really like playing small A's oop. What do you hope for when you do other than exactly what you got. I just don't think top pair shitty kicker is any fun or of much value although everybody tells me I'm a super nit! As played I fold an move on.

I posted the above response and then looked the hand over again and just thought I'd add some honesty here. Irl I'd probably make the call then choke myself if he flips over a boat. Or pat myself on the back if he showed a mised fd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daven

so should he be betting the flop for value or as a bluff? what's villain's calling range? etc....

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Value although it's thin...loosepassives can show up with all aces here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DBRose

Value although it's thin...loosepassives can show up with all aces here.

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like i said you beat only A2,A3,A5,A6,A7,A8... that all... everithing else rocks you.

and the bet on flop is weird.... on there the only hands that call you are a straight, Ax, 2 pairs or set and straight draws. just hoping he is on draws when you have so many hands that beat you is strange for me ,...

just the fact that CO first limped and then called raise, makes me put him with high chance on 1010, QJ, Axs, even K10. i dont give a damn about the hands i beat, they are few, but the ones i get beat are more and very playable in CO that manier..

Hmm...I'm just tryin' to learn a bit here. How does Rush poker play? Open-folding A9 in the blinds at 6m seems nitty, but is rush poker tighter preflop than typical 6m? Is 6m getting nittier in general?

Micro 6max Rush is a little tighter preflop than ring games imo. I think it's because people know they can immediately start playing a new hand if they fold, and also because it's not the same two people in the blinds watching you steal every time. So stealing at Rush is very profitable, the tags almost always just fold, and the fish will call and c/f the flop alot of the time.

Micro 6max tags tend to be pretty nitty, 16/12 would be typical, probably they're so tight because they're not comfortable postflop. Light 3-betting hasn't arrived at 5NL yet but at 10NL alot of the 'tags' will have 3-bet %'s around 8-10, yet another indication they're more comfortable with preflop, esp since alot of fish just aren't folding pre.

Raising A9 here and 3barrel b/f'ing smallish with TP is going to be +EV in a vacuum, I'd say. But raising, folding, or calling pre are probably about the same. FWIW villain here had A4o. Regardless, I like a river b/f better than a c/c against this passive player because I have no evidence he'd ever bluff big with a busted draw but he does play all his monsters this way. Obv he could call down with worse. And with the A pairing otr, you could reasonably expect a call from any K too.

http://images1.memegenerator.net/Ima...Wise-Confucius

prob means on rush dont play A9 o.... i dont play it on FR either, maybe i am to nitty, but the 9 kicker is lame, so it wont help win big pots never, even small ones are a problem with A9, you are never sure if you are the nuts or second best... maybe just my opinion, but A9o is weak hand... maybe with luck, but i prefer not counting on luck

you said rush is tighter then normal FR so, in a 5b raise aint usual that you get called by better hands most of times then A9 if game is tighter PF the FR? then why play it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razvan729

prob means on rush dont play A9 o

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I dont play rush or 6max so weight this accordingly. I agree, fold A9 with no info on villain. However villains line is pretty standard for set farming low pp. If you know a villain takes this line i dont mind the open with A9 at all.

i dont play rush either,but in rush as i understood you cant know opp cause you only play one hand with them :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razvan729

i dont play rush either,but in rush as i understood you cant know opp cause you only play one hand with them :)

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Wat? You don't see consecutive hands against them but i'm pretty sure you will see them again, or is the pool of players infinite?

EDIT: i'm being sarcastic

its not like in FR, ok, you see them , but its a lot harder tracking them and taking notes and get to know theyr playing style

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razvan729

its not like in FR, ok, you see them , but its a lot harder tracking them and taking notes and get to know theyr playing style

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Are you trolling me? I do understand what rush is. All i'm saying is no the pool of players isn't infinite therefore you will see them again. If you get to the river and they have called your AK down with Ax then make a note, likewise, if they limp/call preflop with low pp make a note. It would be retarded not to. Its not harder, the only difference is that your sample size will be smaller if you are relying on your HUD.

yes openside, you said it better, sample size is smaller and with that figuring out their play its harder.... i said before i have problems sometimes expressing myself in english. i am not joking here with no one or anything :) i am serious with my posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bbickes

c/c is fine i'm not folding to an overbet either.

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Here's one that worked out better in terms of the river bluff-catching. I don't think he gets to the river with a better made hand without raising to protect from the fd, except maybe 99, but he definitely bluffs more than he calls.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

CO ($6.80)
Button ($1.95)
Hero (SB) ($12.86)
BB ($10.46)
UTG ($5.30)
MP ($3.29)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif
1 fold, MP calls $0.05, 1 fold, Button calls $0.05, Hero bets $0.25, BB calls $0.20, 1 fold, Button calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.80) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50, 1 fold

Turn: ($1.80) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.20, BB calls $1.20

River: ($4.20) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $8.51 (All-In), Hero calls $8.51

Total pot: $21.22 | Rake: $1.41

Results:
Hero had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif (one pair, Aces).
BB had Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif (one pair, Queens).
Outcome: Hero won $19.81

Played some rush to see what the deal is. You're right, rush 6m plays nittier than my gran.

People aren't valuing position enough, nor looking to their left for opportunities to steal more, nor looking to their right to see if someone's serial stealing from them.

If folks are playing rush to AVOID analyzing opponents, stack sizes, tendencies, notes, then a good player willing to play not-rushed poker at those tables should be able to clean up.

Since I've played like 200 hands of rush poker total in my life, I don't know much about it. But it seems to cater to those who don't want to think much and use the auto-fold buttons a lot. Seems like there should be some solid profit there for someone willing to work out how best to get it.

I don't mean to derail the thread, but worrying about max profit lines on the river might not be the best way to make money as these tables.

Are you talking about stealing, Robb? I ran across a guy yesterday, I only had 5 hands on him, but he'd already 3-bet 3 times! Haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robb

Played some rush to see what the deal is. You're right, rush 6m plays nittier than my gran.

People aren't valuing position enough, nor looking to their left for opportunities to steal more, nor looking to their right to see if someone's serial stealing from them.

If folks are playing rush to AVOID analyzing opponents, stack sizes, tendencies, notes, then a good player willing to play not-rushed poker at those tables should be able to clean up.

Since I've played like 200 hands of rush poker total in my life, I don't know much about it. But it seems to cater to those who don't want to think much and use the auto-fold buttons a lot. Seems like there should be some solid profit there for someone willing to work out how best to get it.

I don't mean to derail the thread, but worrying about max profit lines on the river might not be the best way to make money as these tables.

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the nature of rush is that a great players cant clean up.