3 bet pot vs extreme lagg

villain was a 39/34 ( small sample-70hands) . since i recently managed to delete my database i had to rely on my color coding and i remembered him to suffer a bit of 'FPS'. i also noted that he liked calling 3 bets ip with anything that might flop well and raggy Ax hands. so after he had been stealing my blinds at least 50 times and his ATS was over 85% i decided to 3 bet. once he flats i felt i could still very well be ahead. ok time for flames , notice i didn't shove turn since i am using tableninja and i am retarded and misclicked. i suppose it was a good opportunity to rep a lil sumthing once i called flop RR.
think i played the flop horribly but since he had literally raised any type of draw concistently and 3 barreled all the way when missed ( saw him do that like 5 times before , just bet/bet/bet whether he spiked it or not) . I obviously got a little to optimistically and called. i wasn't too worried about AK pre cuz his range for flatting 3 bets was pretty wide so i was contemplating a shove to make him fold out worse ax and basically i don't think i am folding the turn anymore, i'd seen him go spastic before with midpair type of hands in other pots .

i suck










PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($6.57)
SB ($5)
Hero (BB) ($5.07)
UTG ($5.11)
MP ($5)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif
2 folds, Button bets $0.15, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.50, Button calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.02) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.85, Button raises to $1.70, Hero calls $0.85

Turn: ($4.42) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

River: ($4.42) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $2.87 (All-In), Button calls $2.87

Total pot: $10.16

btw my image was pretty nitty this was my first 3b . not that it matters postflop but might influence his range pre though he ain't much of a thinker.

nor am i looking at this hand -yikes

fold pre.

check flop

check river

don't spam ignorant bs

if he opens wide and calls 3-bets alot, 3-bet a wider value range like 99+, AJ+, KQ+, something along those lines

if he opens wide and folds to alot of 3-bet, 3-bet a polarized range, the value hands AK and QQ+ that will still play well, and some semi-bluff hands, like Axs and sc's, where you don't mind when he folds but you still might flop decent equity when called

3-betting A2o is not good. it's a pure bluff against someone who's shown he doesn't like folding. really it's a bad hand, just fold here.

as played, you could c/c the flop, betting is very thin. he's laggy, you have some showdown value. keep it small and get to showdown is a plan. that's hard oop but really you shouldn't even be in this spot.

don't like the river shove. c/c'ing a small bet is your best chance of picking off a bluff. really there's no worse hands that call a river bet.

1) Profit from 3 betting light is made when you fold people out either with the RR pre or with the cbet post, (Of course you can still out flop them, particularly if they call you down light, but that's not really the point). You have to therefore target players who are capable of folding better hands. This guy isn't it imo.

2) At what point did anyone, particularly with these stats start folding top pair in 5NL? It's not going to happen, which is why you should take all their money.

Open up your value 3 betting range against this guy and profit, don't 3 bet him light, he ain't folding, and you're spewing.

Fold pre - you're oop w/ a weak Ax.

This looks like the type of hand that you want to get to the river cheaply. The villain doesn't like to fold and with his wide range it's entirely possible that he hit his flush or hit trips on the turn and was slow playing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheLongGrind

don't spam ignorant bs

---

Watch as the next 20 posts go on to prove what he says is correct. He may be annoying at times, but he knows his poker.

Yep just fold it pre. Pick a range you want to 3bet with for a reason. A2o is awful if he's calling with a lot of cards because only rarely flop TP and even if we do we're still behind a lot. Definitely check flop because he's rarely calling with worse. Once he raises just fold. Definitely check river.

jup it was definately a relly awfull 3b pre , totally agree , i should use hands like AT+ , KQ, even Kj and 88+ for value to 3 b pre but i got way out of line here obv. i just posted it cuz postflop was kindda intresting , preflop it was a spewy play by me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheLongGrind

don't spam ignorant bs

---

you need to get the fuck over it and start listening to the advice you get when you ask for advice from better players

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JR9477

Watch as the next 20 posts go on to prove what he says is correct. He may be annoying at times, but he knows his poker.

---

it's not what he says it's the fact that he uses 3 posts to say 3 lines!

and obv it was a fold pre , i spazzed pre and it was a bad 3b , only reason why i posted is cuz of the postflop action vs a very blufftarded player w/ a huge range.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

you need to get the fuck over it and start listening to the advice you get when you ask for advice from better players

---

you need to stop berating me like a little kid and grow up instead of pimping every line in your posts with the f word

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheLongGrind

you need to stop berating me like a little kid and grow up instead of pimping every line in your posts with the f word

---

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1...9600563550.jpg

if i was berating you then you'd know it, but until then you need to get some of that bitch out of your uterus and start listening to the advice you're getting (including the advice i'm giving you right now) in this thread because that's the whole damn point of posting the fucking hands

how would u know whether or not i am following advice first of all , secondly just close this thread , thirdly , u just love responding in a negative way whenever someone posts a hand he/she played badly. maybe that's ur style it sure as hell ain't mine. criticism is fine if u can keep it constructive , if you can't do that don't bother posting in threads that annoy you or do it to players who worship you and your knowledge like a god

what

treebet

said

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheLongGrind

how would u know whether or not i am following advice first of all , secondly just close this thread , thirdly , u just love responding in a negative way whenever someone posts a hand he/she played badly. maybe that's ur style it sure as hell ain't mine. criticism is fine if u can keep it constructive , if you can't do that don't bother posting in threads that annoy you or do it to players who worship you and your knowledge like a god

---

a number of people on this forum tell it how it is, if you don't want to listen that sounds like a personal problem

lol 'personal' . secondly i merely posted a hh nothing more nothing less , and yes if someone uses 3 diff posts to post 3 lines and spams a thread after i took the effort of properly posting a hh i consider that to be rude, doesn 't matter if my play was terrible. it's about having some proper respect for a thread. if that's the way things work here ,fine. i will stop contributing then , but don't even think about taking the 'personal ' direction , i'm not that kind of internethero.

And no-one here thinks spoon is a god. He's an annoying shitbag, just like treebet, but unfortunately their most annoying habit of all is that they are always fucking right. You don't have to worship anyone, but if you're here to get better at poker (and believe me you need to) then you might do well to take in what they say. Biting them is just going to mean they stop posting in your threads, which is -ev bro.

Seriously, if your gunna 3b this pre (which you really shouldnt vs an "extreme lag") you have to check the flop for some pot control.
wtf happened on the river?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheLongGrind

how would u know whether or not i am following advice first of all , secondly just close this thread , thirdly , u just love responding in a negative way whenever someone posts a hand he/she played badly. maybe that's ur style it sure as hell ain't mine. criticism is fine if u can keep it constructive , if you can't do that don't bother posting in threads that annoy you or do it to players who worship you and your knowledge like a god

---

This kind of argumentative bullshit seems to be a common occurance in your threads. Spoon said it well about noobs like us, we are poker 5 year olds (in my case terrible 2s). You don't have to worship anyone, but at least be thankfull for the advice that you are getting. Players that are better than you or me don't have to give us free advice. In fact, the advice they are giving us is not free to them. By helping us get better at playing they are basically taking money out of their own wallet and putting it in ours.

Grow up and learn to take a spanking when you get it.

Good job, longgrind. You turned your HH thread into an example of how bad your ego problem is. A better player tells you that you should have played the hand differently, and you can only focus on the fact that he did it over 3 posts? Oh no! Those extra posts affect you, like... not at all! Get over it and accept the damn help.

You think his reply is too terse? Then ask a follow-up question. Although I don't know why you expect a detailed response when you didn't bother to put in any effort to your original post. PUT YOUR OPPONENT ON A RANGE.

Keep focusing on the wrong details (like spelling typos, f-bombs, and extra posts from a forum regular) and I'm sure your poker game will improve really quickly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheLongGrind

respect for a thread

---

Respect is earned. You post a lot of bs hands that are easy folds pre-flop and have been caught bull-shitting about your reads previously. /no respect

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NightGizmo

PUT YOUR OPPONENT ON A RANGE.

---

LOL ' bullshitting' ur funny , i never EVER claimed i was any good concerning ranges , that's not bullshitting , and lol @ ego. especially you guys who treat a forum as their personal shitter

i hereby resign from this bullshit forum .

internetheroes are well funny , you should do that in real life will be a good experience i promise

Iunno I would have happy to give a follow up. I usually do if people ask for it or if I feel people start giving wrong advice and the thread needs to be put back on track and I'm not always right(who is?). I would rather let other beginners at least attempt to try and understand why I say things like "fold pre, check flop, check river" rather then give a detailed explanation for what in my opinion are 3trivial spots that most people can figure out on their own INCLUDING you. If you would have just taken the time and energy you decided to use to piss away being angry you probably could have come up with some good answers yourself or at least some good questions.

Also, too lazy to edit lfdo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheLongGrind

LOL ' bullshitting' ur funny , i never EVER claimed i was any good concerning ranges , that's not bullshitting , and lol @ ego. especially you guys who treat a forum as their personal shitter

---

R-tard. I'm referring to your 'read' where you "just sat down" but then justify your play by stating the " blinds were supernits and the btn was pretty tag". Hell, you even admit to it.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ay-185223.html

PM each other if you guys have personal arguments. I will, however, leave this open for now so we can go over a few things.

TheLongGrind - You HAVE to understand that none of this stuff is personal. Some (most) people post in a way that if you take it too personal you will definitely not last long on most poker forums. My advice is to just let it go, take in the actual poker advice in the responses and keep posting.

Most everyone here started out just like you and received responses just like you. I HATED some of the FTR posters when I first started out. Now those same people are the reason I'm still and I cannot thank them enough.

There's a lot lost in text; tone and body language being two important ones. We might intend to be taken as talking in a teaching, friendly tone. Unfortunately online, tone is often left to our imaginations (often negatively in situations like these), and the situation becomes worse and worse, and nobody really means any harm, but we take it badly anyways.

Everyone has their own personality and ways of expressing themselves, sometimes we might not like it. Icanhastreebet and spoonitnow are good examples of this, but once you accept and understand that they have their own ways of doing things for a reason, you'll realize that they're pretty cool people.

This thread will be locked though if there's more lashing out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kmind

Most everyone here started out just like you and received responses just like you. I HATED some of the FTR posters when I first started out. Now those same people are the reason I'm still and I cannot thank them enough.

---

Haha, I agree. I've too hated some of the things that have been said to me. It may not be what I wanted to hear, but it's what I needed to hear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheLongGrind

i hereby resign from this bullshit forum .

---

Another -ev decision.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Another -ev decision.

---

Agreed.

Seriously, just calm down and let it go. You'll become immune to it before you know it and will also start gaining invaluable advice.

yeah I hated spoon too once upon a time ldo. group hug?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheLongGrind

i hereby resign from this bullshit forum .

---

This will be a -EV decission, I guarantee it.

You posted a hand you knew you'd played badly from start to finish, and you're getting upset when people tell you so? Stop clouding the issue with how people tell you what you already knew to be true before you posted it.

And stop tilting at the forum. You played a piss poor hand. Learn from it, move on. Simples.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

yeah I hated spoon too once upon a time ldo. group hug?

---

YouTube - The Beatles - All You Need is Love (HQ)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kmind

This thread will be locked though if there's more lashing out.

---

yeah, longgrind, don't let that autistic cumdumpster get to you.

this generation of BCers is such a sopping group of vulvas these days, getting offended by mods using the F word and shit.

when i grew up in the BC, spenda was running this shit, and me and m2m and carroters and boog and so forth took his shit storms like men

but, meh, you could always take the dranger route and blame all your life problems on spoon and quit the forum and get kicked out of the military, develop a drug problem, wake up every morning with a different roofied-up 13 year old in your bed next to you running late for your valet job. NAH MEAN?!?!?!

in b4 lock


Hurt feelings report

I gotta get in on this before the lock.

http://i.imgur.com/eh2Oh.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OngBonga

And no-one here thinks spoon is a god. He's an annoying shitbag, just like treebet, but unfortunately their most annoying habit of all is that they are always fucking right. You don't have to worship anyone, but if you're here to get better at poker (and believe me you need to) then you might do well to take in what they say. Biting them is just going to mean they stop posting in your threads, which is -ev bro.

---

All of this is true except the two bolded parts. I'm pretty sure fat-b thinks I'm the god of redneck white beaters, and having better players stop posting in your threads might actually just be neutral EV, even +EV, if you weren't going to listen to them to begin with, or just do the opposite of what they suggest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheLongGrind

internetheroes are well funny , you should do that in real life will be a good experience i promise

---

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/7...1736243943.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JR9477

Icanhastreebet and spoonitnow are good examples of this, but once you accept and understand that they have their own ways of doing things for a reason, you'll realize that they're pretty cool people.

---

ldoldoldo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

yeah I hated spoon too once upon a time ldo. group hug?

---

Yeah and then you 2-outed me and we've been friends ever since.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by surviva316

but, meh, you could always take the dranger route and blame all your life problems on spoon and quit the forum and get kicked out of the military, develop a drug problem, wake up every morning with a different roofied-up 13 year old in your bed next to you running late for your valet job. NAH MEAN?!?!?!

---

Pretty standard. I heard he got a job at McDonalds or whatever recently, and I hope that goes well for him since if you get up to management you get benefits and decent pay.

With that having been said, some motherfucker's always trying to ice skate uphill. While some people eventually mature and get over it, a lot of people don't, and to me that's legitimately sad. It's much more interesting to me when people face the problems in their life and really confront them instead of running from them, numbing themselves with whatever, and blaming it on everybody else. Even if you get your ass kicked by the problems in your life, that's infinitely better than running from them.

This thread gets 5 spades. :D

At any rate, every time I make a move like this it usually ends up a spewy mess. So I stopped doing it. Maybe you should consider the same.

So like yaawn said, dump it pre, ezgame.

stars*

{annnnnd we're done - kmind}