Played wrong or bad luck?

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02-11-2011, 12:04 AM
profnabeshin

Played correct?

This is from NoBadBeats so I can't convert the HH. Also my HUD doesn't work on this site because it is new.. so I have no reads.

Did I play this right? If not what should I have done different?

Everleaf Gaming Game #240627701
***** Hand history for game #240627701 *****
Blinds 150/300 NL Hold'em - 2011/02/11 - 03:58:55
Table 1
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players: 3
Seat 1: vermite ( 20131 Chips )
Seat 7: Hero ( 8464 Chips )
Seat 8: PlayNasty ( 7905 Chips )
Hero: posts big blind [ 300 Chips]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero (Jc 7c)

PlayNasty folds
vermite calls [ 300 Chips]
Hero checks
** Dealing Flop ** [Jd 5c 3d]
Hero: bets [ 475 Chips]
vermite calls [ 475 Chips]
** Dealing Turn ** [Jh]
Hero: bets [ 1,250 Chips]
vermite calls [ 1,250 Chips]
** Dealing River ** [ 2d]
Hero: bets [ 3,000 Chips]
vermite calls [ 3,000 Chips]
Hero shows [7c Jc ] three of a kind, jacks
vermite shows [ Td 5d ] a flush, jack high
vermite wins 10050 chips from main pot with a flush, jack high [ J+, T+, 5+, 3+, 2+ ]

On the turn I bet 1250 into a pot of 1550 and he calls. Was my bet not big enough? Should I have jammed the turn?
02-11-2011, 12:17 AM
profnabeshin

Range I put him on calling the turn {J9,JT,JQ,A5,55-TT,}

However, I am struggling with ranges... I was nowhere close to his hand
02-11-2011, 01:15 AM
Smith

Perfect. Fish caught river. Did you not consider flush draw at all?
02-11-2011, 01:24 AM
profnabeshin

No, I am not sure why I didn't even consider it. Although I have no stats on this player, I have played against him before. He has made some really loose calls even on the bubble for his entire stack. I think that if I jam the turn then he will call.

I wonder why he didn't checkraise the river.
02-11-2011, 02:15 AM
John Doe

Why did you call pre with J7s

Then Why did you raise the river as you are not even close to beating half the range you put him on ???

I think you should have added 33 to his range annyway wich you also loose from ;)
02-11-2011, 04:08 AM
profnabeshin

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe

Why did you call pre with J7s

Then Why did you raise the river as you are not even close to beating half the range you put him on ???

I think you should have added 33 to his range annyway wich you also loose from ;)

I was BB, he limped. There is no good reason for my river valuebet. At the time I was very focused on thinking that he had some middle pair {88-TT}. Looking back, the river valuebet is poor play based on the ranges that will call a near pot bet on turn.
02-11-2011, 07:19 AM
grnydrowave2

If this is the site I'm thinking of, nobody is really going to be able to give you useful advice. The game is entirely different from standard no limit hold 'em. It's new. I don't know if anyone really knows how to play it well. The way equities work is weird. If your opponent is on a flush draw, for example, checking leaves your opponent with like 15% equity. But jamming changes his equity to nearly 0% since the rules of the game won't allow for him to win the pot after that money goes in. I think. Value betting might not even be possible in some situations. You might not be able to semibluff either if low equity is essentially rounded down to zero.

In conclusion:

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5...5607041423.jpg
02-11-2011, 11:41 AM
Viscaro

No Bad Beats Poker Launches on Sunday

WTF
02-11-2011, 12:31 PM
Carroters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viscaro

No Bad Beats Poker Launches on Sunday

WTF

Sounds like a horrible idea.
02-11-2011, 12:42 PM
Shotglass

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Sounds like a horrible idea.

That's a major understatement!
02-11-2011, 03:49 PM
daviddem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viscaro

No Bad Beats Poker Launches on Sunday

WTF

is that not similar to the "bad beat bonus" they have in some casinos? Obviously this is taken from the rake, so that probably means less rakeback or VPP or whatever.

Why is it so bad? Fish still wins the pot and will make the same stupid play next time, tag gets his money back and minimizes variance. But obviously if you factor in the loss of rakeback, I am sure that you will find that you are better off playing as normal... nothing is for free
02-11-2011, 03:54 PM
rong

It changes the game though, right? Because those times where you're combined fold equity plus equity when called justifies a shove change, as you won't win as big a pot when you suck out.
02-11-2011, 04:13 PM
Shotglass

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanAronG

you won't win as big a pot when you suck out.

^^^^^^
If I understood the article correcly the ruturn to the loser comes from the pot (in cash games), which would make it less enticing to the fish who do love the suck out because they see their pot getting jipped, but maybe I misunderstood.
02-11-2011, 04:18 PM
profnabeshin

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviddem

is that not similar to the "bad beat bonus" they have in some casinos? Obviously this is taken from the rake, so that probably means less rakeback or VPP or whatever.

Why is it so bad? Fish still wins the pot and will make the same stupid play next time, tag gets his money back and minimizes variance. But obviously if you factor in the loss of rakeback, I am sure that you will find that you are better off playing as normal... nothing is for free

Actually they were offering 40% rakeback. I had one hell of a hard time making a deposit though. Currently there are almost no players, so the rakeback doesn't matter when there is no action.

Is what happens is that you have a set % for the table. For example NBB 70% would mean that if you get allin with 70.0% favorite to win.. and you lose the hand you get your money back from the last street which you shoved/ called allin.

I have been playing this sites freerolls for 1.5months. It's like an entirely different game. Short stack play is horrible. Also you normally need a 3way pot to eliminate players if they are blinding out waiting for a decent hand.

I will keep in mind that nobody is familiar with this site, and I will refrain from posting hands from there in the future.
02-11-2011, 07:12 PM
Shotglass

Quote:

Originally Posted by profnabeshin

I will keep in mind that nobody is familiar with this site, and I will refrain from posting hands from there in the future.

I tried almost every online converter that I could find with google and none of them could convert it.
02-12-2011, 12:32 AM
grnydrowave2

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviddem

is that not similar to the "bad beat bonus" they have in some casinos? Obviously this is taken from the rake, so that probably means less rakeback or VPP or whatever.

Why is it so bad? Fish still wins the pot and will make the same stupid play next time, tag gets his money back and minimizes variance. But obviously if you factor in the loss of rakeback, I am sure that you will find that you are better off playing as normal... nothing is for free

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shotglass

^^^^^^
If I understood the article correcly the ruturn to the loser comes from the pot (in cash games), which would make it less enticing to the fish who do love the suck out because they see their pot getting jipped, but maybe I misunderstood.

I went back and read the rules. Here's how it works:

There are certain thresholds at different tables for "bad beatness". It sounds like the standard is 70%. If there is an all-in wager, and a player has more than 70% equity, then he can't lose that wager. If he gets beat, the wager is returned to both players. The remaining pot (blinds, bets on previous streets, etc.) will still go to the winner at showdown.

Basically it just creates a sidepot whenever the money goes in and you're sufficiently behind, and your equity in that pot is cut in half. So if you get it in preflop with KK vs. AA, you would normally have about 20% equity. However, if you spike your K, the pot gets split. So now you just have 10% equity. If you shove with a combo draw that has 30% equity, and get called, you now just have 15% equity of the sidepot.

I'm pretty sure SCs go way down in value in this format, since you can't play draws too aggressively. Your equity against ranges is altered too, if certain hands in the opponent's range are 70% favorites or better. So it's harder to call shoves on any non-river street much of the time because you need better odds. If you have a strong hand and believe that a significant portion of the opponent's range consists of draws, you can't shove for value; even fish will fold.

I'm sure there are plenty of nuances that I'm not thinking of. Needless to say, there are lots of adjustments that need to be made for this game. I'll bet few people there are making them, and that it's a very fishy site.
02-12-2011, 02:31 AM
profnabeshin

Quote:

Originally Posted by grnydrowave2

I'm sure there are plenty of nuances that I'm not thinking of. Needless to say, there are lots of adjustments that need to be made for this game. I'll bet few people there are making them, and that it's a very fishy site.

Yes this is a fishy site. However, there is little to no traffic, so it's extremely difficult to get any action. Although the site promotes these NBB tables with say 70% protection, nobody plays them! Everyone (all 10-50 players online) plays regular tables. I have a hard time playing these tables, if its a 10max FR, there are 8 limpers in the pot...

I am still trying to work out the adjustments in my game for the NBB tournaments.
02-12-2011, 05:33 AM
Penneywize

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe

Why did you call pre with J7s

This.

Seriously, open fold pre. Even checking oop is negative EV post. You should know that by now. Shame on you sir, shame on you. 10 rosemarys and pray the almighty lord will forgive you.

Spoon should have locked this thread by now. Oh yeah, he's not our mod anymore, and we're left with two guys who seem ok but really even them combined don't equal one spoon. I imagine 6.34 of them would equal one spoon. Solution: hire 4.34 more mods.

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5...5607041423.jpg

Also: would hit? FUCK YEAH
02-12-2011, 10:23 AM
Shotglass

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penneywize

This.

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5...5607041423.jpg

Also: would hit? FUCK YEAH

:hmm: maybe, after SEVERAL jack and cokes.
02-12-2011, 06:57 PM
kmind

{locked per request - kmind}