[2NL] 33 OOP, set on flop.

No reads/stats to go on at all. 2nd hand of session.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (SB) ($2.14)
BB ($2)
UTG ($1.65)
MP ($2.23)
CO ($3.25)
Button ($2)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/spade.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...es/diamond.gif
UTG bets $0.05, MP raises to $0.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.09, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.05

Flop: ($0.32) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ilies/club.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...lies/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.14, MP raises to $0.28, Hero ???

What do I do here? Call? Raise? I am completely lost.

Fold pre, as played shove

IMO preflop is fine your getting good odds to setmine and MP is repping a strong preflop hand such as AA KK QQ JJ AK by 3betting an utg open. When utg calls i assume he has a lot of PP's in his range also 22-TT and without any more reads i would maybe add AJ AQ, JJ and QQ might flat pre as well but without reads i assume they're 4betting these.

I think UTG might lead out here with almost his entire range sets 44,TT any missed PP 22,55,66,77,88,99 and AJ AQ of hearts id assume he check folds AJ AQ off again working without reads some players might spazz out with these hands but it's highly unlikely. When utg bets and MP raises i narrow his range to overpairs and AK of hearts, i dont think he's 3betting an utg open with TT or any other PP below without a specific read. So imo raise and try and get stacks in on the flop and from my own experience at 2nl very vry few players can lay down overpairs on the flop. Villain will call off hoping your on a flushdraw or have top pair.

Setmining vs utg raise and MP 3bet is not good when utg is still to act. How often are we putting 9c in the pot and not even seeing a flop?

You have a point. Without reads though i think this is fine. If you know the player's utg range is super tight and is 4betting a high percentage of the time and never calling, in other words raising or folding but raising a lot more than folding, i'd fold every time.

not leading the flop is an atrocious mistake. compounded with the already atrocious mistake of calling pre

what's your reasoning for not calling pre and leading the flop bikes?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikes

not leading the flop is an atrocious mistake. compounded with the already atrocious mistake of calling pre

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Care to expand? He was the initial raiser, why would I donk it?

UTG opened and MP 3bet him. Even though it's a small open and a small 3bet, MP's range should be strong. We're readless, OOP, we don't close the action, so it's not going to be profitable flatting pre. Even if we had reads, 33 is too weak to be flatting OOP in this spot.

Flop could be checked behind a lot and we lose value by not betting.

So everytime we hit a hand, even if we aren't initial raiser, we donk it? Sorry for dragging this out but it doesn't make any sense to me.

Lead with sets on wet flops... easy game.

No, it depends. On this particular board, there are tons of hands that will call our donk that may check back the flop and thus we lose value. For example, if UTG has something like AJhh, and MP has AKo. You check, UTG checks, MP checks because it's a 3way pot and people don't bluff very often in this spot. Especially when UTG opens, MP 3bets, and there's a cold call of a 3bet OOP. Everyone's range is strong here so it's not like you would get both players off a hand with one bet. Then you would lose a street of value when you can be, betting 3 streets for value.

Against made hands, you'd probably get it in anyways whether you lead or x/r, so there isn't any benefit from x/r.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ColdDecked

Flop could be checked behind a lot and we lose value by not betting.

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A villain who 3bets an utg open is not going to check back the flop alot IMO. The range i'd give this guy is JJ QQ KK AA maybe AK and depending on villain it could be as tight as QQ KK AA. Maybe even just KK AA. I don't think he checks back a lot of flops with that range in a 3bet pot. Unless he has QQ and the flop comes Axx. Even then hes likely to cbet flop then slow down on turn and river. Virtually evryone cbets there 3bets at 2nl and they can't lay down an overpair either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ColdDecked

Against made hands, you'd probably get it in anyways whether you lead or x/r, so there isn't any benefit from x/r.

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True point taken.

You should definitely lead the flop here. You don't want them to check and see a free card.

OK, points taken. Would that be the same if it was HU?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

OK, points taken. Would that be the same if it was HU?

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When HU it depends on the villains tendencies. If he's a c-bet monkey then I'd c/r, but if there is a good chance that he won't c-bet then I'm donking. In this case, with no reads, then I'm betting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seven-deuce

what's your reasoning for not calling pre and leading the flop bikes?

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I'd hazard a guess that calling pre is -ev and leading flop is more +ev than c/r, since the 3bettor is less likely to cbet vs 2 callers. Also, when we lead, we might get a call from utg and then raise from mp, which makes me salivate.

I prolly c/r this flop too, I pretty much always check to the raiser, not because I think it's best in a particular spot, but because usually they cbet and I'm lazy, too lazy to think about what might happen if I donk or not in a particular spot. I just check my near nuts and see what the others do. That's definitely a leak, not being lazy with my thought process is something I need to work on to improve my winrate.

Easy fold pre. Even if you knew there wouldn't be further action, you want to have the chance to win at least 15x and preferably 20x the amount you're putting in because you'll mostly miss and have to fold, you won't always be fully paid off when you hit, and you might hit and still lose.

Read this part for some idea about a general strategy on this board heads up.

Heads up there is merit to leading, c/cing, and c/ring.

Lead if they check back a lot which should never be the case on a board this dry. Also lead a mixed range of top pair/overcards(usually some kind of good bdsd like QJ)/overs+fds

c/c if they are barrel happy or we've been c/c, c/f quite a bit. Should also mix in like 2 overcards+fd as a float even at micros because you just have so much equity and you don't want to get b/3b off a hand this strong usually.

c/r if you have a history of c/ring or they are cbetting a fairly strong range. An example of a strong range would be they open UTG 9% of the time then cbet 60% of the time or w/e. Also should be c/ring weaker fd's like 98s or w/e because we don't really care if we get 3b off this hand.

Read this part for this actual hand.

Now the actual hand in question

Obviously fold pre.

Easy lead multiway, also lead some Tx/flush draws/possibly overcards very weighted towards value because people don't fold at these stakes etc.

Basically this is a super easy lead multiway because you are going to make life awkward for UTG. They just called a pfr from this other guy now you are leading into both of them. Even if he has some kind of crappy FD that he should probably fold because pfr hasn't acted yet he probably won't because he sucks. Now if you check it goes like this
PFR-Bets
You-c/r
UTG-EZ FOLD
Basically because of your relative position to the pfr your brain should instantly scream LEAD because of the reasons I just stated.

Another obvious reason to lead is if we give free cards on this board we are giving up so much fucking equity.

The other problem with not leading is we keep a pot where we could have easily gotten terrible players to call with terrible draws on 2 streets super small and now we're only getting 1 SMALL street of value versus the same terrible draws where instead we could have gotten 1 SMALL street and a MEDIUM street.

I could go on and on about why it's such a huge error to check the flop and all the people who are checking the flop hopefully now understand at least 2-3 of the reasons previously identified in this post.

Cliffs
1. Relative position JFC
2. Holy shit don't give up free cards
3. Why the fuck are you keeping the pot small
4. Never slow play in multiway pots unless you have an amazing reason.

^ pure quality

HI JustinWells, how are you!

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