Dealing with Donk bets??

I think reacting poorly to donk leads is one of the biggest flaws in my game and would like to discuss them with you guys to gain a better understanding of how my opponents may be exploiting me and how in turn i can exploit them.

I am currently playing 5nl on stars. A situation i see again and again some guy limps from the SB i'm in the BB i raise with J9s KQ Ax just a variety of hands thinking i can make him fold now or cbet and take it down on the flop. So i raise to 0.20 and a villain calls then BAM insta lead out for close to pot? I mean if he had a value hand he should be raising my blind preflop shouldn't he? And putting them on a range is tough cos they do it pretty frequently so its super wide.

Same scenario only from my BTN raise BB flats then donks into me.

I fold everytime unless i flop top pair or a big draw or w/e but it just seems so bad. I feel like i'm being exploited so much in this spot.

The thing is since i have assigned such a wide range for these villains they can rep pretty much every board but i know for a fact they aren't hitting every time.

Reasons i think these guys are leading;

1) Flopped some sort of made hand as strong as a set or as weak as bottom pair
2)Flopped a draw FD GS OESD any draw really
3) Whiffed the flop completely and just trying to make me fold

Ways i think i can exploit this:

1) tighten my raising range from BB to SB
2) Call with hands that have some showdown value such as Ahigh PP's on dry rainbow flops like 952r for example
3) Bluff raise flops (tried this a few times called everytime lol)
4) play my flopped draws very aggro to seize fold equity and build a pot
5) A mixture of the above

Fucking hell i think i learned something just from writing this out, and i apologize in advance for this enormous wall of text.

If anyone else could shed some light on this topic i'd be very grateful. Peace out.

It always depends on the Villain but my general play is:
If I have a monster - i raise b/c i want their stack
If I have a hand with showdown value and I think I am ahead often- I will call the flop and hope they continue the turn.
If I have nothing - I will often raise the donk bets if they are 2/3 pot or less and the board is a bit drawy. That usually means they are trying to draw cheaply so i dont let them. If they lead out for <2/3 and the board is dry but contains low cards like 248 then I sometimes still raise. About the only time i fold is if I am unlikely to improve like say holding 77 on a KQ4r flop.
If they donk for close to pot then i try to tighten up a bit preflop and hopefully get into a place where they valuetown themselves.

Just remember, they have a range, you just need to try and figure out a decent limp/call range that they may have and see how a flop might help that range.
If you fold to all of them unless you have a very strong hand then you will leave money on the table.

Raising donks with air on drawheavy boards is going to be bad most of the time unless villain is someone who donks a ton and is going to have a super weak range all the time. People don't just donk into drawheavy boards with complete air and it's not like they would be folding a ton.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ColdDecked

Raising donks with air on drawheavy boards is going to be bad most of the time unless villain is someone who donks a ton and is going to have a super weak range all the time. People don't just donk into drawheavy boards with complete air and it's not like they would be folding a ton.

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not complete air, i'm not talking 89 on an overcard flop with 2 hearts, but on flops where I have some overcards.
I see villains donking a decent amount into a variety of flops and they are betting usually 1-3bb into a raised pot. They fold quite a bit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vinland

If I have nothing - I will often raise the donk bets if they are 2/3 pot or less and the board is a bit drawy. That usually means they are trying to draw cheaply so i dont let them.

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Alot of the players at 5nl like to call their draws to the river if i start raising with nothing i think i'm in danger of spewing unnecessarily, what if im raising a donkbet with AT on 4s5sJc villain could hold some pairs and spade draws, i don't hold a spade only have a backdoor straight and overs, so i raise villain calls.

The turn either improves my hand, improves villains hand or is a blank.

So the turn improves my hand i hit a non spade ace or even a spade ace i'd feel comfortable value betting top pair against villains range.

The turn improves villains range say the 8s. Straight draw and FD came in and im still behind villains paired hands Jx 5x 4x or he could have hit the 8 with 8x combos. So i feel giving up is best and c/f. Villains not folding much if any of his range on that board. and it's all over his range.

Blank 2d say hits the turn i don't like barrelling because i feel sure he'll chase the fd or open ender to the river and then i'm gonna have to fire a 3rd barrel to win and he might be stationing with TPNK or 2nd pair.

So if i re raise and villain calls i will only continue to bet if i spike a top pair type hand. The other plus is obviously villain might just fold all his air on the flop. So if i'm raising a donk bet hopefully he folds but if he calls shut it down unless i make a hand i can value bet vs villains range.

I like your first two points though.

Yeah, I get that you're going to be raising w/ overcards. But when villains donk on drawheavy flops, the weakest part of their range is going to be draws. There is going to be a lot less air in their range that we could be folding out by raising. So you should have some decent equity (more than just overcards) when you're looking to be raising donks on drawheavy boards.

If they donk 1bb into a 6bb pot, sure whatever, they're probably fish and they're just going to be super weak so often that it doesn't matter really what the board is.

Another drawback i believe is i may be putting villain on a range but most villains at 5nl that are limping into the blinds aren't putting me on a range. So if a card comes on the turn that hits my range alot more than villains i have no fold equity to barrel villain will just think "i have a pair i call" this is why i find these spots tricky. I'm not complaining by any stretch that's what makes these games so easy to beat by extracting a lot of value with your made hands.

there isnt something you mentioned in your post....what type of villain are you playing against and what is the flop texture?

if a 9/8 calls in the SB and donks Axx rainbow - what do you expect his range is?

If a 33/4 calls pre and donks the same flop - what do you think their range is?

Surely their are two different scenarios here?

Good point miffed. Although i'm not talking about one specific villain here it's a trend i'v seen emerging lately it's been happening enough times that a) i'v noticed it and b) i'v made a post about it. I was basically trying to get people to share their ideas on the theory of donk betting, why you think these villains are doing it so i can see if it matches my thoughts and ways you think it would be best to exploit them. Although coming to think of it now i could just fold all missed hands, raise my strong made hands and draws that have lots if not more equity than villains range and station with hands that have good showdown value like vinland said that you think you're ahead enough to profitably call. I think trying to exploit these guys too much could come under FPS and be me tilting slightly, after all i am exploiting them when i am value betting my strong hands i'm exploiting the fact that their stations and are flatting 3 streets with 2nd pair or a FD.

in the games you play in, you should be raising the flop a lot more against the right opponents.

A 33/5 leading the flop and i have TP or better is often a sign to start trying to play for stacks.

Why are you betting with air into calling stations? You make money by value betting them when you have something. The ones you bet into with little or nothing are the high fold to c-bet types, preferably when the flop isn't a good fit with their pre-flop calling ranges.