play this different? river?

$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
FullTiltPoker
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($13.09) 52bb
UTG+1 ($25) 100bb
MP1 ($33) 132bb
kick (MP2) ($25) 100bb
CO ($8.75) 35bb
BTN ($28.07) 112bb
SB ($55.79) 223bb
BB ($25.22) 101bb

Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 8 players) kick is MP2 :ad: :as:
3 folds, kick raises to $0.75, 3 folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: :6h: :3s: :ks: ($1.60, 2 players)
BB bets $1.60, kick calls $1.60

Turn: :8c: ($4.80, 2 players)
BB bets $2.75, kick calls $2.75

River: :7h: ($10.30, 2 players)
BB bets $3.75

caller is unknown first orbit

I don't understand the question.

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Originally Posted by kickass

caller is unknown first orbit

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Assign some vacuum ranges to Villain. No Villain is completely, as you say, unknown.

Adding to what spoony said... what is your question, exactly?

I think he is asking if it's right to just call on every street, where the answer must be no :)

wanna fold or raise anywhere i didnt know what to do. and yes villain is completely unknown i was starting tables didnt see him do anything. and you know what i mean what could i have learned about villain that mighta helped in the situation

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Originally Posted by kickass

wanna fold or raise anywhere i didnt know what to do. and yes villain is completely unknown i was starting tables didnt see him do anything. and you know what i mean what could i have learned about villain that mighta helped in the situation

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What is your range on the river? How do you think you should play it?

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Originally Posted by kickass

[...] What could i have learned about villain that mighta helped in the situation

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Maybe you know nothing about this particular Villain, so

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

Assign some vacuum ranges.

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What would a "typical" Villain's ranges be for each street?
By the river, you know that it's a Villain who is capable of flatting from the BB, then donking the flop with a PSB and betting ~1/2 PSB OTT and ~1/3 PSB OTR... What is the most likely range for a Villain who does this at your stakes?

$10.25. jamming super super tempting as well

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Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

What would a "typical" Villain's ranges be for each street?
By the river, you know that it's a Villain who is capable of flatting from the BB, then donking the flop with a PSB and betting ~1/2 PSB OTT and ~1/3 PSB OTR... What is the most likely range for a Villain who does this at your stakes?

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fuck knows people dont do this apparently its 77

Are you seriously not even trying to put Villain on a range?

I like to start with something like this...

I'd guess that flatting a 3x raise on the BB is rather wide, but not absurd. A lack of 3-bet means I can probably rule out QQ+,AK.
I'd guess in general that a PSB OTF means Villain has a hand and wants to price out a draw. However, not many Villains know how to V-bet well, so it's hard to rule out a draw. Hero holds the A:s:, though, so that limits Villain's draws.
1/2 PSB OTT usually means Villain is still V-betting his hand. However, the less than 2/3 PSB sizing makes me think it could be Kx.
1/3 PSB OTR usually means Villain still thinks his hand is good. I can't speak for your tables, but a river bluff is usually bigger or smaller where I play.

... then congeal that into ranges.

looked like Kx to me by the river i raised it to 11 and thought it was too big he called with 77 he didnt jam.
my range is prolly gonna be Kx and AA. some spades prolly
my range for villain was Kx 66 33 spades (not nf draw obv cos i block it)
turn I thought about raising cos i expected a bigger bet with sets but w/o evidence i opt for a call
river looks like a king going for super thin value or betting cos he doesnt know what else to do. i doubted a set would bet like this as my range prolly doesn't have any straights in it and is super weighted toward Kx AA.

he had sevens everything i thought was abso wrong as shit. when my own assessment is super off I like to ask others what they thought.

so thanks for talking to me like i dont have a fucking clue it was fun, i was far to busy to give a fuck about replying to what seemed to me to be you being a cunt about nothing.

Sorry for being a prick I'm starving!

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Originally Posted by kickass

my range for villain was Kx 66 33 spades (not nf draw obv cos i block it)
turn I thought about raising cos i expected a bigger bet with sets but w/o evidence i opt for a call

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add 45sooted 75s, KK to flop range
raise turn cos you can discount the sets as they only rarely suddenly bet the turn smaller when ftp has a bet pot button and they've already used it + after calling the flop you look like a flush draw yourself so they might do something stupid.

river is close

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Originally Posted by kickass

he had sevens everything i thought was abso wrong as shit. when my own assessment is super off I like to ask others what they thought.

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I run in to that kind of play all the time and that's why I'm responding by being more determined to put Villains on ranges, and to learn to include those oddball low pairs and GSSD's. :)

FWIW, I think you should get straight to your question in the OP. It was hard to tell what you were asking. :)

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Originally Posted by kickass

so thanks for talking to me like i dont have a fucking clue it was fun, i was far to busy to give a fuck about replying to what seemed to me to be you being a cunt about nothing.

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What?! Who?! If this is directed at me, I didn't mean to talk down to you. If you took it that way, I didn't mean it. Sorry. :)

It seems like you let Villain's range become a larger-than-life question. I do that all the time, and it drives me crazy, because it is clearly something I can learn to understand. :)

Besides... Encouraging you to come up with the range >> spoon-feeding you a range, right? I want the same encouragement. :)

EDIT: Added :)'s to make it less cunty. ;)

Too much results-oriented wah wah in this thread for me. I'd be really interested in knowing OP's range on the river (edit: Hero's range, not Villain's).

Certainly using the results to be a cunt but that wasn't the purpose of the thread. I raised the river I wanted to know if anyone else thought that was a good idea. It's easy to know you we're right when you raise for value and get called by worse not so much when yr villain shows up with something you never considered. I also considered raising the turn I wanted to know if anyone thought that was a good idea. Play it different?? River?? Says it all don't you think?

T9ss AA KTs+ AKo and KQo i may get to the river with JJ QQ but would prolly fold them to the river bet if I didn't fold them on the turn.

hero should have every K, QQ, JJ TT and fds

hero, calls with KJ, KT, K9, folds QQ JJ TT, and fds and raises or jams KQ+

KTs KQo+ because that's my pre flop opening range I don't open KT/KJo from mp. Thanks for the advice man

k9s should be an open from that postion

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Originally Posted by bikes

k9s should be an open from that postion

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I really doubt this considering how much of a murder the rake is.

edit: Also how often are people donk/potting Kx/spades here? If spades rarely then can't we just r/f the flop pretty happily v most villains?

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Originally Posted by bikes

k9s should be an open from that postion

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irrespective of who is in CO/BU/SB/BB?

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Originally Posted by kickass

Sorry for being a prick I'm starving!

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Maybe you should not use all your money on poker then :lol:

Sorry, I'm also starving :lol::lol::lol:;)

Hai Guys.

Op: I think I like the flat on the flop here with the As, makes it hard for him to have too many flush draw combos and makes us like playing on spade turns. It's fun to let the random spazzy fish, which this guy could very well be given this flop line, keep going nuts here with terrible hands.

Pretty sure you should just be raising this turn though especially vs this sizing. I'd be pretty shocked to see someone donk this flop then bet this amount with a set here. In fact I'd be pretty shocked to see this flop line from a set like ever at these stakes. So yeah, I'd raise turn and jam river pretty happily since I expect to see Kx way more often than anything else.

As played don't think river is close, pretty easy raise vs this sizing. You're good so so often vs this bet and good pretty often vs his calling range to a raise given it's prolly wide based on the fact that the way he's played the hand is really indicative of him being a fish and not being able to fold Kx on the river. I'd make it $9-$10ish.

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Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

I really doubt this considering how much of a murder the rake is.

edit: Also how often are people donk/potting Kx/spades here? If spades rarely then can't we just r/f the flop pretty happily v most villains?

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I also don't think anyone donk pots a set here though. I think a flush draw is more likely to do it than a set, never minding combos, because set = auto check without thought. So I guess if we get raised here I feel meh about folding due to very few guys ever having sets here and the kind of player who donk pots anything here at all is more often than not a mindless aggro fish. So yeah, raise/folding makes me unhappy.

Call >>> Raise/don't fold >>> Raise/fold >>> Fold. IMO.

this thread ended up interesting thanks fellows