[10NL] QQ...3bet pot facing turn shove.

Villain is 25/4/8 (3bet) over 24 hands. This is villain's 2nd 3bet in 14 opportunities. No post-flop stats/reads.

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $17.01
UTG: $10.96
Hero (CO): $11.75
BTN: $9.30
SB: $12.12

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has Q:heart: Q:spade:

fold, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN raises to $1.05, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.25, 2 players) 8:heart: 5:club: 3:spade:
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.10, Hero calls $2.10

Turn: ($6.45, 2 players) K:diamond:
Hero checks, BTN bets $6.15 and is all-in, Hero ???

Not a good turn card at all. If we think villain is capable of a little spew, such as shoving here w/ TT or JJ then I think we can call here, but it's pretty marginal. If villain is straightforward we are crushed, really wasn't sure what to do here?

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Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,496 games 0.000 secs 299,200 games/sec

Board: 8h 5c 3s Kd
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.567% 36.10% 01.47% 540 22.00 { QhQs }
Hand 1: 62.433% 60.96% 01.47% 912 22.00 { TT+, AKs, AKo }

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We need 33% to make this call, we are getting near 38%. However, even if we just remove TT from villain's range our equity drops to 25%...is this just a puke fold and move on?

Dont care about villains shitty stats 4bet cillain is fish

Or fold cos who knows how to play this

^I dont know what this means^

Drunkard

Yuck. I'm just folding.

CO vs BTN, 4b preflop. If I'm flatting pre, I'm probably raising this flop.

As played, knowing my range and I pretty much have zero Kx here and this is the top of my range playing in this spot, I'm calling. But an exploitable fold if villain isn't 3b out of line could be ok.

That being said, if he has any draw on the turn he's jamming it (though unfortunately there aren't many draws on this board)

I don't agree with your range. I don't see why TT/JJ would shove on this particular turn. It's more likely AA/AK/67s/AJ/AQ or something.

it is I fold, cause even if he may do this with AKs, you will be dominated most of the times

It's a fold now, yeah. But totally agree that this guy is fishy enough that we should just be 4betting with a view to getting it in pre.

Quote:

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CO vs BTN, 4b preflop. If I'm flatting pre, I'm probably raising this flop.

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Yeah this, 100%.

Get it in pre or on flop.

Is flatting a 3bet oop ever a good move unless we plan on getting it in on the flop?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Bean Counter

Is flatting a 3bet oop ever a good move unless we plan on getting it in on the flop?

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I generally don't like stacking off at 10NL w/ QQ as 1/3 of the time we are flipping and 2/3 of the time we are crushed. Very rarely do we get it in in good shape.

I agree that c/c this flop is bad though, I think on these kind of flops I am more likely to get paid from like JJ/TT as opposed to trying to get it in pre, so a c/r looking to stack off is a much better option.

I'd ignore the stats you have and just assume he's your average tag reg considering his 3-bet frequency and standard tag sizing.


Button vs cutoff you just have to 4bet preflop. You're leaving a lot of money on the table in just calling. Regardless of how you played the turn, the biggest mistake you made in this hand was not 4-betting.


On the turn, you just have to call. It's for less than the pot and he could value bet worse or bluff. It's a shame there are no flush draws for him to semibluff (there is 76 though!) With a flush draw board it would be a fist pump call. With this board its a slightly crying call.


Don't fold big hands in big pots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

I generally don't like stacking off at 10NL w/ QQ as 1/3 of the time we are flipping and 2/3 of the time we are crushed. Very rarely do we get it in in good shape.

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Crazy talk. This is cutoff vs button vs a guy's 2nd 3-bet in 14 hands. He could have as many as 25% of hands, and will certainly get in hands you dominate. It's perfectly all right for him to 3bet get in TT and JJ. QQ is a monster when you're stealing from the cutoff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renton

Crazy talk. This is cutoff vs button vs a guy's 2nd 3-bet in 14 hands. He could have as many as 25% of hands, and will certainly get in hands you dominate. It's perfectly all right for him to 3bet get in TT and JJ. QQ is a monster when you're stealing from the cutoff.

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Whilst I agree with everything you have wrote, I'm just not sure how many villains at 10NL are that positionally aware to recognize CO vs BU wars. Not sure if we're giving players a little too much credit for these stakes?

It just doesn't really matter. The mechanics are built in, even if your opponents don't play ball with them. QQ is a monster once it's become effectively 4-handed. It's simple probability. You don't have enough other information to look too far beyond this.

I don't think his 3bet stats are to be trusted after so few hands, he bets too much on turn for us to call IMO and K is a bad sign.