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Starts today.
I hope you're all as excited as I am.
I'm a little bit disappointed United didn't sign some more players but life goes on. City still the team to beat, Liverpool most overrated team by far and getting that many new signings to gel will be hard. Spurs did well to keep hold of all their players but I can see them struggling a bit. No idea what to expect from Chelsea or Arsenal.
I reckon only two people here give even the remotest shit about the Premier League.
I have no horse in the race, I support a Championshit (not a typo) team. So consider me a PL neutral. I hope it's between City, Liverpool and Spurs. Arsenal and Chelsea, let's see how they play under new management, but I'm not optimistic. Utd... shite. I would really like to see them struggle to get momentum, if only so Jose gets the boot sooner.
Liverpool are not overrated. They are the second best team in the Prem, and they might have just gotten better. They're the ones most likely to challenge City.
I'd like to see Spurs do it though just to silence all the people who think they have lost ground just because they didn't buy anyone. Spurs will be equally as strong as last seaon, perhaps more so because key players are approaching their peak, in particular Kane and Eriksen, maybe Alli too.
If Utd play good attacking football, I'll be happy to see them do well. If they go 1-0 and then park the bus, fuck them.
Dark horse this season will be Wolves, imo. I expect top half at least, possibly pushing for Europe. They destroyed the Champ last season, they had quality players and have strengthened. They might be better than Burnley and Everton.
Championship will be dull this season. The three relegated teams will all go back up. All three have appointed really good managers. Swansea have possibly taken the biggest risk, but I rate Potter really highly. I'm biased though because I went to the same school as him, he was in my Brother's year. But he did great things in Sweden. Then again, so did Roy Hodgson.
Stoke and West Brom though, they will be strong. Leeds, Derby and Villa (spit) will also push. Birmingham will do better this year, but I'm hardly expecting great things. Just avoiding another relegation battle will do just fine.
I'm starting to understand why a fight always breaks out whenever people try to follow soccer.
Just reading this shit hurts.
Yeah and about two people give a shit about any other thread lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
United should be good tbh we weren't bad last year and Fred could actually fix a spot we've had a big issue with. I don't know enough about him though.
I always like to see Spurs do well and keeping their players is good but no new blood in the dressing room can be a real issue. Especially when a lot of other teams have strengthened.
I really like Klopp and Salah is obviously brilliant but a lot of their other players are massively over-rated and new signings need time and it's unlikely that so many work. I hope they are strong it's always better when there are 4 or so teams genuinely challenging for the title.
Something something quater back, throws the egg, touchdown. Time for bitches with pom poms. Woo yay huzzah.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaStand
Oh look, Man Utd take the lead inside 5 minutes, still 1-0 after an hour. There's a fucking surprise.
edit - Why are Leicester bringing on Vardy after an hour? What the fuck is he doing on the bench?
I assume you aren't watching because it's been a really good game so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
Iheanacho has the potential to be really good. You'll probably just find Vardy isn't fully fit/been with the team long enough to start. Leicester have looked really good in posession and United would have had a few more goals if Alexis wasn't incredibly wasteful.
No, not watching. I will watch a Utd game soon so I'm not basing my opinion on last season.
I feel for Mourinho today his team have just decided to be absolute shit. Just completely and utterly bottled it under the tiniest bit of pressure.
How do you not blame the manager for that? Either he's losing the tactical battle, or his players aren't performing to the level they should be. Either way, it's the manager's problem, it's his job to get the tactics right, and to ensure his players are properly motivated. Are they any better second half?
It isn't losing the tactical battle and it isn't that players aren't motivated or performing over a period of time. It's that Bailly has actively decided to be utterly shit today.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
And not particularly.
I mean if one, maybe two players are not on their game, I guess there's not much the manager can do other than sub them.
But if the team are playing shit... Utd have some really good players and so if they're playing shit as a team, that's either tactics or motivation. Probably a bit of both.
Can't see anybody getting close to Man City this year. My team (Portsmouth) have made a decent start in League One.
Does anybody do any football betting here? I'm going to experiment this season by making a few hundred small bets and see how that goes.
Remember when Pompey were a Prem team and So'ton were in League One?
Football betting is a mugs game and no one makes money from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bean Counter
City have taken a pretty big knock with De Bryune getting injured. Will hardly make them pushovers but at the same time he has consistently been the difference in picking up points in tight games.
I dunno.. Leicester were 5000/1 to win the league... now, while it was a miracle, it still happens more than once every 5000 years. I mean, Wimbledon won the FA Cup in our childhood. Oxford and Luton won the League Cup. Forest won the title and two European cups. Even Birmingham have a cup. This all happened in the last 40 years.
Just had a look at the odds on betfair exchange (usually the best price avaioable).
Everton are 330/1 to win the league. That's more generous than it should be, since if we did this 300 times, Everton are going to win one or two titles. They won a few in the 80's against the greatest Liverpool side in history.
You can get 4/1 on Spurs in the [without City] market. That's printing money, seeing as it's near certain to be them or Liverpool.
And Bournemouth, sitting third with 7 points from 9, are 1000/1 to win the league. Again, very unlikely, but once every millenium? From this position, they win more than one title every 1000 years.
I might stick a couple of quid on Bournemouth.
It isn't whether Everton will win the league in 300 years it's whether everton will win the league this year. Yes bookies sometimes give over the top bets like that to entice people to gamble.
Bookies stop you placing bets if you are shown to be making a consistent profit, betfair takes a bigger chunk of your winnings to the point it'll destroy any edge.
Also to make profitable bets that are 2000/1 you need to have a huge bankroll and you need to be able to make a lot of them.
During the world cup a lad I knows work did a betting thing where you predict every match, so many points for a result, more for perfect score and a few other things like winner & top scorer giving points. This guy knows nothing about football but did some research into common outcomes etc. He handed his sheet in with basically every result being 1-0 (or like 2-0 for huge favourite etc) to a team picked someone like Brazil to win it and a big name for top scorer. His work lol'd at him and asked him if he understood he was meant to be picking the score.
He got by far the most points from correct results and perfect scores. And only missed out on winning the whole thing by a couple of points because the winner result was so top heavy.
Well, it's half way between the two. How many times will Everton win the league in 300 years, assuming exactly the same teams? I know that's obviously a flawed concept, but this is what I mean by them having better odds than they should.Quote:
it's whether everton will win the league this year.
Anyone who bets with a bookie is an idiot. Betfair exchange gives MUCH better odds, more than enough to account for their slice. Further, believe it or not, pokerstars seems to have prices that compete with betfair, and pokerstars are not going to refuse bets from their players, are they?Quote:
Bookies stop you placing bets if you are shown to be making a consistent profit, betfair takes a bigger chunk of your winnings to the point it'll destroy any edge.
Find the right place to bet. If a Force India wins today, I'm making hundreds from a few quid.
True. Or bink lucky, I mean there must be a few people who bet on Leicester, knowing they were better than their previous league position, knowing it was better than a 5000/1 shot.Quote:
Also to make profitable bets that are 2000/1 you need to have a huge bankroll and you need to be able to make a lot of them.
haha often you'll find that people who think they know what they're talking about are the biggest losers of them all.Quote:
During the world cup a lad I knows...
Also, there's money to be made on betfair selling bets, too. I mean, people are taking 150/1 on Ocon to win today's GP, while pokerstars are offering 300/1. If I had a big enough roll, I could place bets at pokerstars and bet against it on betfair, and I'm printing money.
haha since I made that post, pokerstars have stopped taking bets on Ocon. I think there might be a few people wise to the difference in odds between stars and betfair.
Lukaku has to be one of the worst finishers in football, dreadful.
edit - losing to Spurs at home, season over.
edit 2 - When Jose is renowned for setting up defensive teams who don't lose very often I can't see him lasting very long when we are shipping goals. I didn't mind last season too much but getting dicked on at home 3-0 by teams like Spurs isn't ok. If we're getting shit results we at least need good football & we have the players to do it.
The CD weren't even the problem today, we fucked up a few chances and then Kane scores a class header from a corner (which argubaly is bad tactically as no one was on the post). It's just a poor excuse.
"teams likes Spurs"
Dude they're one of three teams on a different level to Utd. Utd didn't deserve second last season, it flattered them.
Spurs are complete chokes that under perform against big teams they won't get CL football this season. City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal. And it really didn't United were by far the second best team last season.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
It's only Utd fans that think they were second best last year. I think your natural bias is a factor here. Liverpool were much better, you can't ignore the fact they got to the CL final, deservedly so. And Spurs will finsih above Utd this season, no question. Chelsea might nudge them from third, but Arsenal look average so far, and Utd are already in crisis.
Top four already looks locked on... City, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, probably in that order but certainly those four.
Those were the glory days, before the son of an arms dealer had his allowance taken away from him and Pompey went bust.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
I think there's a small edge to be had with the lower and non-leagues and also trying not to be affected by the mentality of the herd. I think there's sometimes +EV bets and I had a decent World Cup so going to experiment a bit more. If I lose a couple hundred then I'll give it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Savy
Not sure people get banned. A mate of mine had an interview for a senior audit and controls job at a large bookies a couple years back and asked them about this. They said they don't block the pros and instead monitor them carefully - if the pros start backing something early, they change the odds pretty quickly and basically use them to analyse their markets. Then again, they also said they want their customer base to be people putting on £20 at the weekend for a bit of fun, but they would need a lot of those. Degens are obviously where their money is at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Savy
I gather a lot of the pro betting companies in London like to lay the 100/1 shots with their bankrolls, as the true odds are usually longer. I think they've also got the tech to identify where the market is unbalanced, like a two horse race where you can back both at greater than evens at different sites. I used to do a bit of that manually, but it was too time consuming.
Betting companies are full of shit. They make their money off the degens and enouraging people to bet a much as possible on little things. They may not outright ban people but they cut their odds and fuck aroudn with what they can and can't bet on.
You'd make more money putting those football bets into a savings account and they suck dick. If you want to make money set up your own work pool you can milk but betting apps these days are so good they kind of kill that market.
This is complete bollocks. I watched basically every United game last season and in most years they would have won the prem pretty comfortably but City were godlike. Arsenal are actually the best they've been in donkeys but because they had a couple of bad results they are now massively underrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
Liverpool are by far the most overrated team right now. If you want to lay some bets. I would agree that United are the worst of the 6 but at the same time we still have a much better team than most.
Arsenal might well be underrated right now, they're in transition and it will take time to see how good they really are. Otherwise, I mean yeah I agree, top six for Utd. They're not bad, they're just not as good as the top four.
imo, I mean what do I know? I just know I hate watching Utd.
Watching the Nations League game, Spain are clearly better than us. They're so much more comfortable on the ball. We do look good, but we lack something, we dither too much on the ball, we just can't find that quick pass like they can. On the one occasion we do manage to make quick and accurate passes, we score. That's what it takes, we need to maintain that level like Spain do.
I'm glad to see a competetive game, this is much better than a friendly.
Spain are meh we are just shit. Also wrong thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
This is the de facto football thread.
2nd half was much better. They battered us for a good while, and we somehow held on. Then we battered them and somehow didn't score.
The post World Cup optimism remains. This team will get better, and we're already competing with the best.
We're just missing that one truly world class creator in our team (Modric, numerous Spaniards, Suarez to an extent), or that unreal forward player that can do something special in a tight game (Bale, Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar). Then we would be in with a real shot of major trophies. That said, other than maybe Kane and Trippier, none of the English players at the WC would have got into that French team.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
Pickford is a top keeper, I suspect the best we've had since Shilton. Maguire and Stones will be amongst the best in the world. Trippier is possible already there, he's been immense. I would hope Kane still can get better, and then there's Alli, Sterling, Rashford and Lingard, who have got lots of potential left in them.Quote:
That said, other than maybe Kane and Trippier, none of the English players at the WC would have got into that French team.
Ok you look at what M'bappe did, and there you have a teenager who doesn't have potential, he's already world class. But if that's what England fans expect, the next M'bappe, we're even more deluded than I thought.
So long as the players I just named don't stagnate, so long as they still improve, and I expect them all to, we'll be just fine, and will establish ourselves as a top five international team.
That young Livepool defender, forgotten his name already, he looks good too. There's a few players that are emerging that could challenge the current squad. I really don't understand the negativity that England fans have towards the team. This new gen of players have already acheived for England more than the so-called golden generation did in their entire careers. Most of them still have two world cups in them. This is good times for England.
As of today we're still a little bit short and missing that match winner when margins are tiny, but the future is definitely bright. You could argue the Germans have never had that one stand out player, so it's not essential.
To be fair to the FA and Southgate, they deserve a lot of credit for the bright future. They implemented a grass roots review a few years ago based on the German model and have stuck with it, without any panic decisions every time England have a bad game. The foundations are there now with the U17/U19 teams exceptional. The key is to make sure the players can step up, get the right manager and game time and be in a position to handle all of the pressure that comes with playing in the EPL. That and still being driven enough to improve once they sign that first fat contract.
On a related note, I read an opinion piece about Villa's academy a few years ago. They used to weight their kids much more towards playing over education and other personal development. That meant they had a ton of players aged 16-18 that were well ahead of all clubs, but none of them ever improved as they hadn't developed the right mentality. Wouldn't surprise me if there was some truth in that.
Yeah I agree here. It's just that I'm not too bothered about this... such players a rare, we haven't really had one since Gazza, unless you count the criminally wasted Scholes. I mean, Croatia are only where they are because they have one of the world's best players, certainly their greatest player of all time. We can see that a key world class player is really all it takes to move on to the next level. I see no reason why we won't have someone at least close to Modric's current level by the time the next WC comes along.Quote:
As of today we're still a little bit short and missing that match winner when margins are tiny, but the future is definitely bright.
Henderson is underrated at international level and if we can find two natural midfielders to support him, we'll see just how good he is.
Ashley Young clearly wants Jose fired because this is just lazy. Jose has got to go now as he's lost the players. The next manager who comes in needs to put his foot down and get rid of some of these players. My pal LVG would crack some skulls.
I still can't get my head around the fact Ashley Yound plays for a team as big as Utd.
Steve Bruce is available, quick sack Jose before someone else snaps him up.
Anyone but Giggs.
Lovely back 3 of Pogba, Matic and Smallings. At least it's full out lulz changes whether it works or not.
edit - What's Wenger up to? Give Moyes another go?
Eddie Howe? I don't know what he has to do to land a top job.
He isn't a big enough name. It's a whole different ball game being manager at a team like United. Someone like Pochettino, however good a manager, wouldn't hack it at a team like United.
This sums up everything that's wrong with the attitude of fans of big clubs. Getting a shit team from L2 to chasing Europe in the Prem is obviously not what qualifies someone to manage a team like Utd.Quote:
He isn't a big enough name.
Try Zola. He's a big name.
You say that sarcastically but that is 100% true. Being solid tactically and having good training routines is minor compared to being able to attract top players, commanding respect, understanding what it's like at a massive club. If I had the option of Zidane or Howe I'm going for Zidane all day even though if I was someone like Everton I'd snap Howe up and wouldn't go near Zidane.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
No he isn't. Dreadful managerial record and was hardly a serial winner whilst he was playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
Looks like he'll keep his job for a few more weeks yet.
Even if we win, and it's a big if, he probably shouldn't. The team doesn't perform for him it's just delaying the inevitable. Just need to get someone lined up to replace him.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
How big a name was Alex Ferguson when he took the job? He won three titles in Scotland with Aberdeen, that's what got him the job at Utd. It certainly wasn't his glittering playing career at the likes of Dunfermline and Falkirk.Quote:
You say that sarcastically but that is 100% true. Being solid tactically and having good training routines is minor compared to being able to attract top players, commanding respect, understanding what it's like at a massive club. If I had the option of Zidane or Howe I'm going for Zidane all day even though if I was someone like Everton I'd snap Howe up and wouldn't go near Zidane.
Football in 1991 and 2018 are the same thing. Ferguson had actually done more than Howe too.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
GET IN!
Shitty CBs, play no CBs. Ez.
Debateable. Winning titles with Aberdeen vs dragging Bournemouth from shit to best Prem club outside the top six (probably), that's quite impressive in my book, equalling Fergie's pre-Utd feats.Quote:
Ferguson had actually done more than Howe too.
Winning european titles with Aberdeen. And in all honesty the manager is such a small part of a club moving through the ranks. What Sean Dyche does is more impressive than what Howe does.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
Oh yeah I forgot the Cup Winners Cup. Alright fair enough.
Still, it was a risk to appoint Fergie. While the CWC was a serious competition back then, it wasn't bragging the best teams in Europe. Ferguson wasn't exactly being touted for the Real Madrid job. Yeah I get football was different then, but it was also better... tactics mattered more than money.
Fergie didn't buy many players for silly money, he either brought them through the junior ranks, or made shrewd signings. Keane and Cantona, they're the only massive signings I remember him making in the early days. Most of his players were either excellent scouting, or excellent coaching.
Would you rather have Scholes or Pogba?
Why? He's been found out, it's all gone a bit wrong this season.Quote:
What Sean Dyche does is more impressive than what Howe does.
Scholes is one of the greatest football players to ever play the game and absolutely loved the club that he played for and is probably my favouite footballer ever. Pogba has the potential to be world class but meh. If anything today proved he's better off playing deeper, if he pulled his thumb out he has the physical attributes to be so good but he's lazy on the pitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
What I'd give for a player like Keane in this United side currently.
Also Fergie made some dreadful signings and spent a lot of money.
I had to go to google to remind myself who the real bad signing was... Veron. £25m in 2001. Fuck me.
Quote:
He's a fucking great player and you're all fucking idiots.
What a win for United, completely undeserved but that Mata freekick was so well scouted and implemented. Ronaldo proving why he's world class, such a finish and as amazing as the goal was the delivery deserves some credit too. Juve should have put that game to bed a few times. Martial showing his worth running at players.
United are so meh off the ball when teams are attacking us out wide, we always drop to the near post and it just allows easy cut backs in acres of space.
Hopefully the game against City is a good one but I'm worried.
Well, savy? Giggs until the end of the season, then Poch?
Tbh I'm not too arsed who gets the job until the end of the season but if Giggs or Southgate get the job I'm quitting football.
Unless the money is silly I see no reason why Poch would go to United, has such a cushy life at Spurs. Absolutely no pressure to win anything so play nice football and that's good enough.
I don't think Poch will go to Utd, but then again wtf would I know? I just have a feeling when he leaves Spurs, it'll be to Spain, whichever of the big two come calling at the right time.
Southgate isn't taking the Utd job on, why the actual fuck would he risk the reputation he's built up over the last year? He's got far too much to lose, he needs to be completely focused on the England job, especially with a big summer coming up. The Wales job is a little more Mickey Mouse, fuck all going on for them in the coming months, Giggs could do it part time for six months no problem.
Ok so not Giggs, how about Hughes? He's available, Utd legend, would be nice to give him the job for six months don't you think?
Has Solskjaer been given the job until June?
Southgate would be incredibly smart to leave England to take on a very well paid managerial job at a huge side. He got incredibly lucky with England's run (and still under-performed imo) and England haven't really done anything to suggest they are good. If people take the Nations League seriously and we win it playing well or play well in both games and lose in the final I'll give him some credit. Wouldn't want him anywhere near United.
Giggs has no managerial experience so why would I want him near United? The idea is just madness.
Solskjaer looks like he is going to be taking the job for 6 months which of the names I've seen suggested I am happy with. I'd have preferred Blanc but meh.
I like Solskjaer, I hope he does well enough to earn the job permanently. I Man Utd gatecrash top four, he's gotta be worth considering at least.
Not half a bad start.
Who's that Pogba guy? He looks like he could be a half decent player.
Just some lad from the youth team.
Blues above Villa, Utd sacked Jose, I think we both got what we wanted for Christmas.