9Ts in blinds vs tight player

6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: kasha1111 ($5.78 in chips)
Seat 2: Janosikgdy ($5 in chips)
Seat 3: BertMacklin9 ($8.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($5.78 in chips)
Seat 5: SuperMasha1 ($5.38 in chips)
Seat 6: JoacoCu ($5.07 in chips)
BertMacklin9: posts small blind $0.02
Hero: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero [9d Td]
SuperMasha1: folds
JoacoCu: folds
kasha1111: folds
Janosikgdy: raises $0.07 to $0.12
BertMacklin9: folds
Hero: calls $0.07
*** FLOP *** [Qs 3d 9c]
Hero: checks
Janosikgdy: bets $0.14
Hero: calls $0.14
*** TURN *** [Qs 3d 9c] [3h]
Hero: checks
Janosikgdy: bets $0.26
Hero: calls $0.26
*** RIVER *** [Qs 3d 9c 3h] [Kc]
Hero: checks
Janosikgdy: bets $0.40
Hero: ????

Sorry I can’t get hand converter to work.
I don’t have a hud but villain had played pretty tight and seemingly passive over 40 or so hands.
I called preflop bc I felt I could get him to fold with a bluff if he checked the flip/turn.
I didn’t think this flop helped him much and felt he would give up after the flop. If he had KQ OR AQ then he would certainly
continue but when he bet the turn I thought ok, maybe he will give up the river. When he didn’t check I had serious doubts
I could be wrong on my read of him, was this a fold pre or post?

Ooh a hand to talk about, nice. It's been a while.

Sample size is very small, tight over 40 hands can simply mean card dead.

Pre flop we can call or 3bet this spot. Folding is absurd though, our hand is too good to throw away to a standard raise even if we think villain is super tight.

Flop is a very easy c/c, we have middle pair and two backdoor draws.

Turn is as blank as it gets, we're either still ahead or still behind. It's not a great turn since hitting our second pair is now insufficient to beat a queen, but I still feel like we're ahead often enough to profitable c/c turn.

River is a tough spot. If he has a queen he's likely to check this river back to realise his showdown value. No reason to turn a Q into a bluff here. He either improved and we're behind, or he's triple barreling air. That seems unlikely given your read he's tight. I know I said 40 hands is a small sample, and it is, but it's enough to see him do something stupid if he's that way inclined.

I think river is a disciplined fold but it's close.

Just to add I'd play a queen the exact same way except I'm not folding river. This makes it hard to exploit us. Ok we might fold a 9 when this river lands, but if we're not folding a queen, and if we have more Qx than 9x in our range, it's not a good spot for him to triple barrel his air.

Oh an I don't think we should ever really have TT or JJ in our calling range pre flop here, button vs bb. Both are a clear 3bet.

When we call flop, we probably only have 9x, Qx and of course JT JK KT. What 9x do we even have? A9s 89s 9Ts obviously, maybe some J9s 79s Q9s K9s, but we're never really going to have any offsuit 9x. We have some offsuit Qx though.

Yeah I think I fold my 9x on river here and call my Qx, along with any Kx draws that I didn't fold on turn, that should be sufficient to pick off his bluffs without paying him off too light when he has AK KQ QQ+.

K thanks.
I have a hard time folding rivers after c/c two streets, as if there is an unwritten rule that I shouldn’t. I felt the only hand that changed things would be if he barreled AK and hit river but the bet was less than half pot. I know I shouldn’t ruin the ending but I did fold. I was wondering if folding a river after c/c two streets is ok.
Im trying to develop a calling range in the blinds vs Btn steals. I agree TT is value enough to 3 bet pre but wouldn’t it be better to call if villain is folding a lot to 3bets? Instead add hands like 22-77 to 3 bet?
I have been calling pre with hands like AJ, KQ, 88-TT, JTs

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I have a hard time folding rivers after c/c two streets, as if there is an unwritten rule that I shouldn’t.

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Yeah I do too, it's an act of discipline, something I often lack.

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I was wondering if folding a river after c/c two streets is ok.

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It's obviously ok in some spots, whether this is one of them is open to debate but I think it's ok. He certainly can have AK here and he probably bets it on the river because we look so much like Qx. This is also another reason why it's hard to imagine someone who isn't obviously a moron is betting the river light here, because he can't seriously expect us to fold a queen for less than half pot at showdown.

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I agree TT is value enough to 3 bet pre but wouldn’t it be better to call if villain is folding a lot to 3bets?

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If we're seeing him r/f button vs big blind often then sure we can 3bet lighter and trap TT+ but your read on him gives no reason to think he is raise/folding to 3bets in such spots. People on the button make lighter calls to 3bets because they are in position and we know the button gets 3bet lighter from the blinds because that's the dynamic of button vs blinds.

So as a default, I would say no, don't call TT, that's a tricky advanced play for balance and deception as we build a sample size against this villain. We want strong hands in our 3bet range to balance the A5s etc that are bluffs. We don't hate being 4bet when we have TT, especially if we're deep, so we definitely wants hands we can continue with in our range. We'll need more than the premiums if we have lots of bluffs.

Hands like 22-66, I mean against villains who we think are stealing wide from the button we should just throw these hands away. We miss the flop 90% of the time and when we don't we're not up against a hand that can pay us off often enough. If we 3bet we hate being called. Low pocket pairs are great when villain's range is strong, not when it's weak. I'd rather 3bet 23s than 22 in a bu vs bb spot.

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I'd rather 3bet 23s than 22 in a bu vs bb spot.

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This is hyperbole and not financial advice lol.

K9s though, hands like that are far superior to 3bet than 22 because we have a blocker to AK/KK, and we're going to suck out more often. If we 3bet K9s then cbet 57Tr flop and get called, we can turn a straight draw, flush draw or top pair. With 22 we have absolutely nothing and only beat high cards, and even then they have plenty of equity.

thanks. I’ll read this over a couple of times to understand the blinds play. I like your point on 3betting the Ax and Kx bc of the blocking aspect-not sure I had thought of that. I don’t think enough about potential playability of a hand post flop in an3 bet situation. The small pp’s are hard to play postflop for sure.
The game sure feels different than it was 8 years ago lol. I didn’t need to think of this sort of thing at 10nl back then and now I have to make all sorts of adjustments at 5nl

Poker is definitely harder than it was a decade ago but there are still a lot of bad players casually burning their money


Blockers are underrated. When we have K9s for example, the probability of villain having AK is lower and KK much lower. Of course he can still have these hands but we're that little bit more likely to get our 3b bluff through. Blocking premium hands pre flop is pretty easy to wrap your head around, but it can get complicated post flop when we have a card we want villain to have, such as the Ad on a ddx board as he has more draws in his range when he has the Ad - if we have that card his calling range is stronger, containing fewer draws. That's not a skill you really need at these stakes but having that skill will give you a little more of an edge so it's definitely worth thinking about how the cards we hold affect villain's ranges both pre flop and post flop.

Also we want K9s not K9o for two reasons... first of all, the obvious extra playability and equity, but also because if we're 3betting K9o we're going to be 3betting way too often.

Pre I'm calling every time. I'm not folding or raising this against any button.
Button's small-ish open - 1.5BB - makes this an easy call, IMO.

Flop is obv. I hit mid pair, and I'm not pushing it up or folding. c/c any sensible bet, here.
Their hand is still pretty concealed if they C-bet in button v blind situations. Even if they don't, they have plenty of draws in this and PP that the 9's beat.

OTT: that 3 sucks for me. Most 3s in my pre-flop range are A3s, and I'd be inclined to 3-bet pre instead of call. Whereas the button steal range has plenty of 3's. I don't think many people at 5NL are double C-betting, so now I'm starting to think he actually likes his hand... and I don't like that my 2-pair is counterfeit by the board pairing, and I don't like that my T blocks his JT combos. I'm reluctantly calling 'cause I don't want to crumble at the first sign of trouble, but I'm feeling more behind than ahead at this point.

OTR: I think I have to c/f. All I have left is a bluff catcher, and he's 3 barreled me after the flop. W/o any read that this player runs a 3 barrel bluff, I'm pretty convinced I'm behind, here.

OK - all 3 of us agreed the river is a c/f.
I feel better now...