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Quite honestly I think blind stealing is overated for SnGs. Dont get me wrong, I do blind steal, but its either b/c:
(1) I got a big chipstack and want to bully the small stacks. If its against a small stack, 3x-5x at least.... but I would make sure its consistent with my other normal strong preflop raises.
(2) Im shortstacked and need to build up. Better against BBs that have average or less chips. I would just assume bet 50%-100% of my chips
(3) 4 (maybe 5 ppl left). Id check to see if I have a marginal hand+ and blind steal. If it works, BB is closer on the bubble. If I get called and win, at least I have a chance at the money
(4) If my left opp is tight/conservative. I would blind steal. But if probably be just as safe as liimping in and betting 1 on the flop.
Blind Stealing just to pick up some chips (<5% of your stack) isnt as important in an SnG
In $5 and $10 SnGs, i truly believe blind stealing is the key to winning consistently. Can't comment on the higher stake games, i ain't a regular at those. 3xBB is often too transparent even in low stakes SnGs. I think mixing 3, 4, and 5xBB is the most effective.
It is easy to put yourself in the bubble when you are playing low stakes SnGs. But the problem always lies in finishing ITM. You play tight aggressive (without blind stealing) and you'll most likely make more $ than lose in the long run, but it's tough to see good per hour earnings that way. You ask any idiot who steals blinds more often than the general poker population, he'll tell you success rate is always higher than failures. Even if you have 60% success rate at stealing blinds, you still come out winner more often. We all know when the game gets short handed most hands dealt out there are garbage, or at least not enough of a hand to call 3 or 4xBB raise. Why not take advantage of that? Somtimes fishes call raises preflop just to fold on the flop, they figure they won't be bullied and they call knowing they'll fold on the flop unless they get a miracle flop. If you are reraised, fold, not a tough thing to do. If you are short stacked and committed by failing to steal blind, fxxx it, AI. The bottom line, you would have built a substantial amount of chips by the time someone figures you out and develops the balls to call you. They might pick the wrong time though, this time you might really be holding something. You get good action (not necessarily more of course) stealing blinds. Your opponents get tired of you stealing and they end up calling with their garbage. You put yourself in a good position to finish ITM and probably won't have to settle for 3rd. Other players will not dare to steal from you, you don't like attempting steal on an aggressive player. All of a sudden, they won't touch you unless they are holding premium hands. You gotta steal blinds if you want to win consistently, playing rock only gets you so far.
As far 4xBB to 5xBB raise are concerned, low stake SnG players are catching up with the idea of stealing with 3xBB... there's no doubt in my mind higher stakes would challenge that kind of raise.
I think 3xBB is fine Rippy, main reason is because when blinds are 100/200 you don't want to put 800 or 1000 chips just to steal some blinds. If it were 600 then you would have a better ratio of amount put into the pot trying to steal the pot vs amount won from stealing blinds.
i'd have to sugguest you becareful with 5x BB for the blind steals.
your betting 500 to win 150. You need to be right 70% of the time to break even
Personally, I've been finding even less than 3xBB to work just fine once the blinds are a significant size relative to stack sizes. 2.5-2.7xBB seems to work just fine. I'm playing on PokerSharks though where raises in general are more effective and players are more often weak/tight. I can't say that the 2.5xBB blind steal got all that much respect during the most recent FTR Showdown though. Of course, everybody there knows that everybody else is willing to attempt blind steals with crap and therefore are willing to defend their blinds more readily.
Yea tough to come up with new tricks considering we discuss 90% of them here.. although i guess i'd haveto make it past the first hand to get tricky next time :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DrNoChance
Well I gotta admit. I'm not one for blind stealing too much. It seems whenever I decide to try it. One of the blinds has a very good starting hand. Maybe just bad luck on my part.
So is it really just a crap shoot when it comes to stealing the blinds? How often does reraising back at the stealer turn them away? And how often can one be expected to be successful in making a steal?
I don't get how raising 3x BB is transparent. If you raise 3x BB every time you raise preflop when its folded to you, how is anyone going to know if you're stealing or not?
When the blinds are low and I'm opening with a raise, I do 3 or 4x BB, on steals, AA, KK, QQ, JTs, 66, etc., and when the blinds are big I typically do 2.5x BB on every hand. Occasionally I'll mix it up a bit, but not on any specific hand.
There's nothing transparent about it, and that's really the entire point. You don't want them to know when they should reraise, call, or fold. Reraise my 3xBB bet all in once and I may fold. Do it again and I may have AA this time and I take your stack.
Where I do change my raising amount is if people have limped in or raised in front or me or anything like that. Then I'll consider adjusting my raise based on the situation (how to get the most money in the pot, isolating the preflop raiser, possibly folding everyone out, etc.).
Do most people steal blinds from the button when there is no raise ahead or does it just have to be in late position????