A missed opportunity?

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12-13-2004, 09:01 PM
TylerK

A missed opportunity?

The river play on this hand keeps bugging me. I think I totally missed an opportunity. Check out this hand (my thoughts in red).

***** Hand History for Game 1295229779 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Monday, December 13, 03:50:32 EDT 2004
Table Table 12616 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 3: TylerK_ ( $63.73 )
Seat 6: wookie2424 ( $38.1 )
Seat 5: pamu5 ( $73.85 )
Seat 9: ItsOkRelax ( $32.91 )
Seat 10: Poprishchin ( $22.2 )
Seat 8: PitDaemon ( $20.7 )
Seat 4: MattTurlock ( $25.05 )
Seat 1: Shollos ( $25 )
ItsOkRelax posts small blind [$0.25].
Poprishchin posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TylerK_ [ 6s 6d ]
Shollos raises [$1.5].
TylerK_ calls [$1.5]. I can nail you if I hit my set or if you miss. My odds are ok to call this bet.
MattTurlock folds.
pamu5 folds.
wookie2424 calls [$1.5].
PitDaemon folds.
ItsOkRelax folds.
Poprishchin folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, 4s, 8c ]
Shollos bets [$5].
TylerK_ calls [$5]. You missed and I know it. I'm going to play some stop and go and force you out on the turn.
wookie2424 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qd ]
MattTurlock: MD, pam?
Shollos bets [$5].
TylerK_ raises [$15]. Ok, hand over.
Shollos calls [$10]. Uh oh.
** Dealing River ** [ As ]
Shollos checks. Yes!
TylerK_ checks. WHY DID I DO THAT!?
Shollos shows [ Kc, Qc ] a pair of queens.
TylerK_ doesn't show [ 6s, 6d ] a pair of sixes.
Shollos wins $43 from the main pot with a pair of queens.

I totally blew it on the river. The pot was big enough (and his stack small enough) that I DEFINITELY should have fired all-in. I don't KNOW that he would have folded, but had good odds to try. I really don't know why I choked.
12-13-2004, 09:43 PM
Sed

I think you may have saved yourself 3$ not pushing on the river since he'd likely call knowing the 25nl players.

A 10$ raise on the flop may have pushed him out.

- sed
12-13-2004, 10:00 PM
a500lbgorilla

Raising the flop is suggested but the call is completely acceptable. It would have been a difficult call for him on the river, but I might be inclinded to check behind as well. Though it would have been a very tough call for him on the river.

-'rilla
12-13-2004, 10:03 PM
elanto

Ok so i think u did two things wrong in this hand, the first one u know already, ur check on the river, that ace was the prefect scare card for you and you should have taken advantage of it. the secon mistake is what sed pointed out, you had a good read on him and knew he had missed the flop, you should have made a big bet there and hope to drive him out, you cant give him a chance to draw his TP and beat you...just my .02

-anto
12-14-2004, 09:29 PM
TylerK

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanto

the secon mistake is what sed pointed out, you had a good read on him and knew he had missed the flop, you should have made a big bet there and hope to drive him out, you cant give him a chance to draw his TP and beat you...just my .02

I don't know...I figured I'd let him draw to his 6 outs and extract a little bit more from him on the turn...he just happened to hit one of them.
12-14-2004, 11:04 PM
michael1123

As they say, don't slowplay just a pair, but especially not a low pocket pair! It'd be a bit better to wait until the turn even if you had 32 with that flop, because then at least you have a much better shot of improving (5 outs compared to 2), and be able to beat him even if your read is wrong.

Where elanto is wrong in that quote is the hoping he folds part. If he does have overcards you should want him to call, as long as you're giving him bad odds. In this case you're basically giving him free cards to beat you, and if he didn't hit a pair you may have not even made any more as there's a pretty good chance he would've just check folded after your flop call.
12-15-2004, 08:02 AM
Cocco_Bill

Re: A missed opportunity?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerK

The river play on this hand keeps bugging me. I think I totally missed an opportunity. Check out this hand (my thoughts in red).

***** Hand History for Game 1295229779 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Monday, December 13, 03:50:32 EDT 2004
Table Table 12616 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 3: TylerK_ ( $63.73 )
Seat 6: wookie2424 ( $38.1 )
Seat 5: pamu5 ( $73.85 )
Seat 9: ItsOkRelax ( $32.91 )
Seat 10: Poprishchin ( $22.2 )
Seat 8: PitDaemon ( $20.7 )
Seat 4: MattTurlock ( $25.05 )
Seat 1: Shollos ( $25 )
ItsOkRelax posts small blind [$0.25].
Poprishchin posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TylerK_ [ 6s 6d ]
Shollos raises [$1.5].
TylerK_ calls [$1.5]. I can nail you if I hit my set or if you miss. My odds are ok to call this bet. agreed
MattTurlock folds.
pamu5 folds.
wookie2424 calls [$1.5].
PitDaemon folds.
ItsOkRelax folds.
Poprishchin folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, 4s, 8c ]
Shollos bets [$5].
TylerK_ calls [$5]. You missed and I know it. I'm going to play some stop and go and force you out on the turn. No you don't know it! He probably did miss, but judging by the way he bet I would say that there probably is a good 20% chance that he is on a higher pocket pair than you. If you wanted to take a chance that he did miss you should have re raised here. Had I played this hand I would have either re-raised here or folded.
wookie2424 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qd ] Now this should be a scare card and the most likely play he would make if he didn't hit is check and then fold to any bet. Thats how I would play it anyhow.
MattTurlock: MD, pam?
Shollos bets [$5].
TylerK_ raises [$15]. Ok, hand over. I am sorry,but this is poor poker in my books! He had at least 6 outs on the turn and another 6 outs on the river giving him about 24% chance to hit. So 0,8 * 0,76 = 0,608 is your edge on him if we assume that he had 20% chance of having a higher pocket pair than you. You should have respected the fact that he bet here and not assumed that you were ahead. This is either a call or fold situation for me.. Shollos calls [$10]. Uh oh.
** Dealing River ** [ As ]
Shollos checks. Yes!
TylerK_ checks. WHY DID I DO THAT!?
Shollos shows [ Kc, Qc ] a pair of queens.
TylerK_ doesn't show [ 6s, 6d ] a pair of sixes.
Shollos wins $43 from the main pot with a pair of queens.

I totally blew it on the river. The pot was big enough (and his stack small enough) that I DEFINITELY should have fired all-in. I don't KNOW that he would have folded, but had good odds to try. I really don't know why I choked. Hmm, I don't know...From his perspective you already called the flop bet and made a stab at the pot on the turn which doesnt seem like a play made when hoping to be hitting an ace. There is a good chance that he would call your bluff here especially with so much money in the pot allready.