Flop Turn River in Perspective

This weekend sure didn't accomplish much, did it? We had our first pissing match with 2+2 and, well, it went as one could expect it to go. I have taken advantage of the opportunities that FTR has given me over the past several months here at the forum, and I didn't realize how great this forum is until I visited 2+2.

Twoplustwo.com:

In reality, how can you compare any poker forum to that of 2+2? I mean, the amount of material available to the everyday reader is immense, almost as big as their egos. Thus, its really hard to say we are 'better' than 2+2 in the material regards. How much material do we have on this forum that isn't already answered a billion times on that forum? What percentage of our members here read 2+2 on a daily basis? And, where can I find answers to my questions about material above a certain benchmark?

Think about it, the best poker player on this site is Fnord. He got pwned at 15/30 and he's a pro. Who am I supposed to ask questions on shit related to material up to and past 15/30 at this site? Where do you think Fnord got all his information from? We don't have the personnel or the experience to compete with the 'big boys.'

Our goal for the Future:

We have to experience this shit ourselves. We have to create our own legion of poker players, from the bottom up. Start with sound basics and we will start churning out more and more great players everyday.

I can name every decent LHE player on this forum, I know who the good ones and that bad ones are. Fnord, Hypermegachi, Mike4066, Gutshot, Gabe, DaNutsInYourEye, Les_worm, and even others who just not so long ago were fish among poker players. We don't have the history 2+2 has, but we definately have potential. The community of players here has a focus on HELPING each other. We WANT to help those asking for help; there are plenty of fish in the sea for all of us.

I'll be the first to admit I havent been the politest on these forums; i've made my jackass remarks, who hasn't?

Frankly, I know i'm not the greatest in the world and I'm ready to improve my game. I'm ready to move to the next step, whatever that may be. I encourage all of you to do the same. We can beat the snot out of some of those 2+2 players, and don't let yourself think otherwise.

Dude. I said it in the IC, and I'll say it here. Don't waste your energy thinking about those lame ass retards. Although the notion of FTR becoming a worldwide source for poker info is goal. I'm sure alot of members here would prefer our nice little community. Than one where everyone is gods gift to poker and will always let you know they are.

I'm sure RGP and 2+2 started out the same way too. And look at them now. In the short amount of time I've been here. All the admins have tried to do is make sure FTR dosen't go down that same path. I don't want to be the next 2+2. I'm happy being the first FTR. And like I stated previously. Show me a member here who wouldn't sacrafice the notoriety and size for what we currently have.

FTR vs. 2+2 heads up? Come on. Like that asshole said. Varience is a bitch to deal with. And all it takes is one lucky hand to say who is supposedly better than who. Real proof is in the profit. And if you're one of the many players here making a pretty penny off poker. Then you don't need to prove anything to anybody. That's almost as upsurd as saying let's have a Party vs. Stars match.

Point blank everyone. Please don't go to any other site on behalf of FTR. They care about our opinions about as much as we care for theirs. And you're not doing Xianti, ttanaka, or Eric any favors either. All you're doing is sucking up FTR's internet resources with worthless rabble rousing.

Let's take the high road on this one.

Sniff Sniff, that was beautiful man!

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Originally Posted by TheDoc

Sniff Sniff, that was beautiful man!

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Thank you. I try. Can we hug now?

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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Think about it, the best poker player on this site is Fnord. He got pwned at 15/30 and he's a pro. Who am I supposed to ask questions on shit related to material up to and past 15/30 at this site? Where do you think Fnord got all his information from? We don't have the personnel or the experience to compete with the 'big boys.'

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15/30 full table isn't that hard. You just have to pick your battles. There are some very good players in the 2+2 community, and there are some who think they're much better than they are, same as here. There are some really bad players at every level on Party. If you are disciplined enough to find a good seat, you can beat any game there. I do, and most of you guys probably think I'm a fish, which I very well may be.

BTW, I doubt Fnord really played enough hands to know if he's good enough to beat that game. IIRC, he was down $2500 between 5/10 6 max and 15/30. That's not even 100 BB at that level.

If the number of posters at FTR grows, then eventually there will be plenty of good advice and analysis here. IMO, there's already enough for me to keep coming back.

I enjoy FTR's community. I decided to register here and not anywhere else despite reading up and down everywhere else because FTR appealed to me for a reason.

All of the best poker players are egotistical but only some of them are polite. It's the nature of the game.

I like FTR and read it more than 2+2, in general FTR is more collegial, the good players will help out microlimit beginners.

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Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

Dude. I said it in the IC, and I'll say it here. Don't waste your energy thinking about those lame ass retards. Although the notion of FTR becoming a worldwide source for poker info is goal. I'm sure alot of members here would prefer our nice little community. Than one where everyone is gods gift to poker and will always let you know they are.

I'm sure RGP and 2+2 started out the same way too. And look at them now. In the short amount of time I've been here. All the admins have tried to do is make sure FTR dosen't go down that same path. I don't want to be the next 2+2. I'm happy being the first FTR. And like I stated previously. Show me a member here who wouldn't sacrafice the notoriety and size for what we currently have.

FTR vs. 2+2 heads up? Come on. Like that asshole said. Varience is a bitch to deal with. And all it takes is one lucky hand to say who is supposedly better than who. Real proof is in the profit. And if you're one of the many players here making a pretty penny off poker. Then you don't need to prove anything to anybody. That's almost as upsurd as saying let's have a Party vs. Stars match.

Point blank everyone. Please don't go to any other site on behalf of FTR. They care about our opinions about as much as we care for theirs. And you're not doing King Monkey, ttanaka, or Eric any favors either. All you're doing is sucking up FTR's internet resources with worthless rabble rousing.

Let's take the high road on this one.

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I wasn't suggesting we become another 2+2, but you can't deny the amount of information there.

i <3 ftr community

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I wasn't suggesting we become another 2+2, but you can't deny the amount of information there.

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No, but you certainly are promoting becoming something bigger than 2+2. Which in and of itself is not a bad thing. I'm sure King Monkey, Eric , and TTanaka wouldn't mind seeing FTR become a household name.

But as I've stated previously. They would not sacrafice what they have built to this point to become a place where flaming someone asking for help is the normal response. What I love about FTR is our "open minded" approach to poker. Sometimes statitics do in fact give way to a "gut" feeling. Here at FTR there is definitely a wrong way to play poker, but what defines "wrong" is a grey area. And that's how we go about helping each other out.

We all talk about our own individual styles of play, and from there adapt our games accordingly. With some good hearted ribbing to keep things lighthearted. Like, "Rilla is King Kong's bastard child."

And it hardly ever goes to the level of downright depravity as it does over there.

The main point I was trying to get to you was go back and reread the posts you made over there. But pretend those aren't your posts. After the first few replies you'll see yourself what a waste of valuable time you made. You could have been here learning something new. Or playing and making the chedda. I wish I could get back the time I wasted reading all those replies. I just wanted to be clear on the facts before I made any replies of my own.

There doesn't need to be any poker forum jihad by us. If we grow, we grow. If we stay a small community of friends, we stay. What matters most is staying true to what we're about. Making money and having fun while we do it.

Fyr's absolutely right. 2+2 is a household name amongst poker players, and if you go by sheer numbers, they definitely have more players, and inherently, probably some better ones. I don't mean that as offensive to anyone here, as there certainly are some excellent players here.

but some of the things I enjoy about FTR is the "quality over quantity" approach of it... we've got maybe 40 REAL contributors here... guys you see in here every couple of days minimum, and there are varying skill levels here... from "n00bs" to fledgling pros. But one thing all the regular contributors here have is a true love for the game. It's not all about the chest pounding... it's about improving. There's a real "We're all in this together" sense to it, and everyone takes their game seriously. The answers you get are genuinely thought out... and I respect the opinion of all the regulars in the forum, even if I don't always agree with them.

Take for example, 'Rilla and hyper.... they're two excellent players. They're different players, and given the same hand they'll approach it often two different ways. Ask them for an opinion on it, and they'll give you two different ones. But you can learn something from both of them, and you can be certain that some thought has gone into their answers.

No one has to be afraid to ask a question here. Or at least they shouldn't be. People in the beginner's forum are treated with respect, and the group gives that to anyone who tries to honestly improve their game. These same players would be run into the ground over on the 2+2 forums... and to some extent, the other guys are right: Poker's a cruel game at times... but you know what? We don't have to be. That might be "politically correct weak tight bs" or whatever, but it's the FTR philosophy, and it's why I park my ass here every day and not over on the "bigger and better" forum. At the table, we take no prisoners. This is a forum of friends and players. This is not the poker table. That's a distinction some can't make.

The mods and contributors here have a sense of camaraderie and and community that you just don't find elsewhere... and that's why we're BETTER Than the other guys... no matter how the cards are played out.

Bravo Fortune. Couldn't have said it better myself. Oh wait, I already did. :wink:


See. Camaraderie. :P

<---Plus, how could you get mad staring at that?

My thoughts in this topic...

I used to be an avid backgammon player before I switched over to poker. I was very obsessed with the game; I played it any time I could spare and read about a dozen books about it. I studied statistics, probability theory, and game theory just to improve my game (this mathematical background has helped me immensely in poker as well). After about 4 years I was approaching expert level of backgammon play. I switched to poker because poker was new to me, more challenging, more popular, and from what I'd heard, quite a bit more profitable (this turned out to be so true =).

But anyway, the reason I bring up my backgammon history is because it was during the last 15 months of playing backgammon that my skills improved dramatically. This was right after finding a website called gammonline.com that included a backgammon forum. You have to pay a membership fee, so there were only 200-some posters on the forum, and only a couple dozen regular posters.

Yet, even though there were so few members, this forum was by far the best backgammon forum available on the web, simply because the regular posters always gave thoughtful responses, were always willing to help anybody (even the newest members who didn't know what a doubling cube was for), and even when disagreeing about something to the bitter end, they would be courteous to one another. It is important to note that nearly every thread was useful or interesting to read, and nearly every post was relevant; the forum was not cluttered with nonsense.

The moral of the story...a dozen good contributers and no bad ones is far better than two dozen good contributers and two hundred bad ones. I like FTR just the way it is. I've only been a member for a few months but this forum is helping me improve my poker skills as rapidly as the gammonline forum helped me with my backgammon skills.

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Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

The main point I was trying to get to you was go back and reread the posts you made over there. But pretend those aren't your posts. After the first few replies you'll see yourself what a waste of valuable time you made. You could have been here learning something new. Or playing and making the chedda. I wish I could get back the time I wasted reading all those replies. I just wanted to be clear on the facts before I made any replies of my own.

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I wont disagree with you. If anything it was advertisement for FTR, not that I am sure FTR would like that sort of media attention.

A positive is I did make that guy regret he ever posted here, that makes me feel a little proud, even if he's a douche.

And if all that happens out of the mess is that we get a couple more decent players over here to post some hands and offer criticism, then that can only help out our game and site even more (there has already been one person join recently who has made some worthwhile contributions).