How can you get people to FOLD when you know your ahead?

The obvious answer would be higher stakes, but i play $10 sng's whether its 1 or 2 table..
There should be abutton on pokerstars that will let them see your cards. This is the scenario, how can i play it any differently?

4 Limpers, im in SB With 77.. i know if i raise it i will get 3-4 callers so i elect to limp.. it comes 789 2 diamonds, the pot is 750. I'm first to act, and on a board like this i am not one for slowplaying, I bet 600.. and a guy re-raises all in, seeing how i have only 1500 left I call, he flops over j4 of diamonds and hits a flush, and just like that I am out. (and before you say raise preflop, how could i if i know 3 or more will call, and all i have is pocket 7's)

Or in another game, i raise through the roof with premium hands and people call.. blinds are 10/20 early, so i get QQ and pump out 160 (x8 the BB) and get 3 callers (not surprising). Anyways the flop comes AK4, so im on check/fold mode, surely a strong ace or someone hit, anyways it checks all the way down to the river and a guy with k2o wins. If i bet the flop i am sure he would have called down.

My worst scenario is when i know i am ahead, and i am 99.99% sure the guy is on a flushdraw, i know to give him horrible odds, yet when i do that i also commit myself to the pot and the flush always seems to come
i busted out on the bubble of a Sit n Go yesterday when i hit top 2 pair with 2spades on flop, guy checks, i bet huge, he calls, guy checks (no spade on turn) i go all in, he calls on flushdraw and hits it (He had 10% of his stack in the pot when he made that call)

How do you deal with people chasing flushes against you? I know your suppose to pay them off every one in three times, i can live with that, and normal variation is normal, but i've lost TPTK or better fourteen of last seventeen times to people chasing flushes with bad odds.

Should i just bet less so i dont screw myself over when it comes? But then that gives them odds (or close to) to outdraw me. Insight needed!!

You want people to call of their entire stacks on flush draws. You might not like it now, but you have to get into a poker mind-frame. At higher levels, you dream of people playing like this.

-'rilla

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Originally Posted by megadeath

I bet 600.. and a guy re-raises all in, seeing how i have only 1500 left I call

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Fair enough you had trips but this was a pretty dangerous board and you weren't pot committed, despite what you say above.
Calling an all in on this board is asking for trouble, how do you know he hasn't already made a hand which beats you?

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Originally Posted by Legendash

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Originally Posted by megadeath

I bet 600.. and a guy re-raises all in, seeing how i have only 1500 left I call

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Fair enough you had trips but this was a pretty dangerous board and you weren't pot committed, despite what you say above.
Calling an all in on this board is asking for trouble, how do you know he hasn't already made a hand which beats you?

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Because it is a $10 SNG, These people push with absolute crap, i knew 99% sure i was ahead, unless he flopped some weird straight, + i saw this guy earlier go all in on a flush draw and hit it, so thats his standard move really... would you have check/folded after the flop? i wanted to be agressive because i knew at that point in that hand i had the best hand, so why not push it?

sometimes you are destined to lose your stack..

you want drawing hands to call bigger bets than their implied odds justify. Remember you are a fovourite against almost any draw with a set so you want them to call your bets, just dont pay them off too much if the draw hits.

This is exactly why I've dis-liked online poker for the past 3 months. Flushes are about 40 for 50 against me and my bankroll can't take that.

that's why you want a big bank roll, so you can handle losing a few buy-ins, losing a few days in a row etc...

i feel the same way - it sucks to lose money no matter what - however if you consistently make good plays ie have the best hands or best odds, then you will come out ahead.

one key thing is that most poker players especially early on (myself included at this moment in time) remember their LOSSES a lot more than their GAINS

i basically tell myself even if i lose a couple buy-ins or get some beats that if i'm making the right calls/plays thats all that matters. luck cancels out over time, but playing solid poker over time = success.

ok, I was about to offer you infinate amount of coinflips where you will win 65$ if it comes heads, but lose 35$ if it comes tails. but since you can't take the downswings and you hate losing even though you are guranteed to win over the long run, I take it back.

But wait, I was gonna call your bets K2o on AKx board, and hand you over the money everytime you have AA KK xx AK AQ AJ AT, but since you want me to fold, I guess I'll fold.

quit poker man.

Read This

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=8530

Why are these losses causing you so much pain, is your bankroll too small to afford a few $10 losses, if it is you're going to need to play something else. You mentioned moving up to improve the quality of your opponents but if you can't beat this level why should you do any better up there, if you still have this mindset it's quite likely you'll be the one sucking out on peoples trips with a dodgy draw because they'll be ahead of you more often than not.

Maybe you've just had a bad run and it'll even out, if you're confident you've got the upper hand over your opponents i'm sure it'll turn round. If it doesn't post some more questions.

As has been said, you really want them calling when you're ahead unless the pot is already huge, especially when you're way ahead like a set against a flush draw (as opposed to top pair against a flush draw with an over or two).

But also there's some truth to what you say about lower stakes and it becoming a +EV crapshoot, with so many bad calls that the variance skyrockets. Its easier to be a winning player in the long term in low stake games, since the skill of the opponents is much lower, but winning will be less regular and more luck based in a specific session (in terms of needing luck to avoid their outs after making bad calls).

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Originally Posted by Legendash

Read This

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=8530

Why are these losses causing you so much pain, is your bankroll too small to afford a few $10 losses, if it is you're going to need to play something else. You mentioned moving up to improve the quality of your opponents but if you can't beat this level why should you do any better up there, if you still have this mindset it's quite likely you'll be the one sucking out on peoples trips with a dodgy draw because they'll be ahead of you more often than not.

Maybe you've just had a bad run and it'll even out, if you're confident you've got the upper hand over your opponents i'm sure it'll turn round. If it doesn't post some more questions.

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Im 95% sure i just have to weather the storm of flushes knocking me off, and i know i can beat this level. For the $10 SNG's i have mantained a 65-72% ITM with winning about 30-38% of all that i play, i know those are good numbers, and these numbers are based on playing over 100+ SNG's at this level, i've even played in the $20 games and im 3/5 in winning those ones also. What troubles me is getting people off flush draws in Ring Games, im a complete newbie at ring games (i started off with $50 on Pokerstars and grew it to $500 playing SNG's)... But with ring games i just can't bully people around/use their stack size

people seem to buy in with $10 at the low limits and go kamikaze with the first hand they see (AQ AK 99+) or i buy-in with $25 and get in a hand against another stack that goes like this (this hand happened again last night)

ME: KQ
Him: guess,, its not hard

preflop: i raise: 1.50.. he calls
flop: K83 2 diamonds (pot roughly: $4)
i bet $3 he calls.. everyone else folds
turn: K83Q 2 diamonds (pot $10)

Now im not worried about AK in case he limped it in, im certain i have the better hand here and i do NOT want to be outdrawed again

I bet $15.. i bet that much because i just really wanted to take it down there, to my surprise he calls

river is of course a diamond, and im not folding to a $2 bet (the last of my stack), and of course he hit a flush.

I guess if i AM playing it right, then there is nothing i can do but wait it out, going all in on the turn wouldn't make any difference, if he's gonna call $15 he will call $17, oh well.. consider this thread a vent.

Anyways, im really good at SNG's and have had constant sucess at them but switching over to Ring, does anyone have a guide on how to play the lower limits, i don't need deception or off the wall plays at that level, because no one notices, i believe im playing Right, but i know its alot diffferent then SNG's. I can take losing when i was the underdog or the guy simply outplayed me, i can take bad beats, but when flushes run 80% against you in the last 20ish it gets hurting.. so i guess my new question is all the ring experts,, i learned SNG's the hard way and i wish i knew some of what i knew back then when i started (would have saved me alot of bubble exits), does anyone have some good advice for ring games at lower limits (25, 50c blinds)


and thanks Pryoxene for that post.

Wow. I'd never read this post before Fortune 500 just pointed to it tonight. Pyroxene, that story is amazing.


{Moved from Hold'em Hand Histories}

Play ring, have bankroll big enough and welcome every single bad beat. In the long run, you are the one who has all the $$$. You have to change your mindset about bad beats, I have a lot of friends in FTR and outside FTR who just think of single hands isntead of seeing the big picture which is long run. Do not think about your single hands or sessions, try not to be results oriented. It will be difficult but believe me, it will save you from a lot of mental pain if you continue to play poker.

"I just lost the pot because of the bad beat, thus, I won" is a hard thing to understand to many.

EDIT: Pyroxene, this was truly an amazing post. I think that it changed my way of thinking to so many things I cannot even imagine yet. For that I thank you.

Pyroxene's story and relevant replies have been split, stickied and moved to Beginners Circle:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=25206

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Originally Posted by michael1123

Its easier to be a winning player in the long term in low stake games, since the skill of the opponents is much lower, but winning will be less regular and more luck based in a specific session (in terms of needing luck to avoid their outs after making bad calls).

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I couldn't disagree more.

You certainly have issues moving down because you're likely play too many hands (without showdown value) and try to induce routine folds that aren't routine at that level. With a couple adjustments you probably could play $25NL and never book more than 2 losing days a week.

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Originally Posted by DoGGz

This is exactly why I've dis-liked online poker for the past 3 months. Flushes are about 40 for 50 against me and my bankroll can't take that.

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It'll be ok.

*sigh*

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There should be abutton on PokerStars that will let them see your cards

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And give your opponents the chance to play perfect poker?

If you are making your opponents make mistakes, then you will come out ahead in the long run. Say in a cash game all-in situation on the flop where somebody is a 3:1 dog holding a flush draw against a set, and they are getting 2:1 on the call. You WANT them to call there. You don't want them to fold there....

Lukie, check the dates.

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Originally Posted by megadeath

4 Limpers, im in SB With 77.. i know if i raise it i will get 3-4 callers so i elect to limp... (and before you say raise preflop, how could i if i know 3 or more will call, and all i have is pocket 7's)

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I'm still trying to work this one out.

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Originally Posted by Irisheyes

Lukie, check the dates.

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rigg3d

OP said march 2006 when i posted.