This hand played correctly?

Down to 4 in a SNG

Pays to 3 places, $25/$15/$10

Basically, I was cussed out for this move, but I think it was the right move. At this point I was risking a fairly small percent of my chips to kick out a player.

I figured that she probally had the top pair or possibly a flush draw (a set very unlikely because JJ or 88 would probally have been raised. I had bottom pair, and figured I had either needed to dodge a dimond, or hit another 3 or a 2.

I didnt make this call thinking that I had the best hand, I made it thinking that I was risking ~15% of my chips to have a ~20% chance of kicking out player 4 insureing that I was ITM.

Even loseing I would still have more twice the stack of the next highest player

I just dont see this as a bad move, but could be wrong, so i'm asking here to be sure..

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) converter

UTG (t3150)
Button (t1700)
SB (t1500)
Hero (t8650)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2:heart:, 3:spade:.
2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t300) J:diamond:, 8:club:, 3:diamond: (2 players)
SB bets t1350 (All-In), Hero calls t1350.

Turn: (t3000) 3:club: (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t3000) 7:heart: (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t3000

Results in white below:
SB has 6h Jh (two pair, jacks and threes).
Hero has 2h 3s (three of a kind, threes).
Outcome: Hero wins t3000.

If you're playing on the merits of the hand, it's a bad call.

Following your chip stack frame of mind, and the ability to eliminate... it's marginal. Calling when you know you're beat and the pot odds aren't there is shaky.

I personally lay it down... but that's me.

I think its a bad play. I would think that more often than not, ur beat horribly. Does it really matter if the SB picks up another 300 chips? Probably not. Its not like you really commited anything to hte pot in the first place. Is it a bit deal if you lose an eighth of ur stack? IMHO, yes.

I'd be mad that I got pissed on, but it's people like you who put the money in my pockets, so you can stay mad only so long.

Sorry to say it, but I think you're a fish.

Maybe you should explain yourself as opposed to just calling people fish.

Needlessly doubling up the short stack with absolute trash in your hand?

That's what a fish does.

Seriously, 3-2? What do you beat with that? You are behind pretty much every possible hand. You're way behind any pocket pair (except twos, but you have a two in your hand so that's unlikely), any pair on the board including threes and are behind a flush draw as well. The ONLY hand you are reasonably ahead of is X2 offsuit, but the guy wouldn't push with that.

He said himself he thought he had three outs, but he still calls? Unbelievable. I don't even know why I'm explaining myself, I don't think there's any explanation needed for calling this guy a fish.

at least this time you attempted to TELL HIM WHY IT WAS A BAD PLAY. As opposed to just telling him that he sucked. People come here to get advice not to get hateraded.If you want to pass the haterade around go to twoplustwo.

I totally understand the elimination tactic. I do it too, and I don't stricly go by pot odds when trying to eliminate others because of the great value of an elimination. But the other end of the scale is, do you want to possibly double up your opponent chasing less than 5 outs**?

FTR DUDES, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG -- When you play the bully, I think you are getting more bang for your buck calling/forcing a small-stack all-in PreFlop because you still have 5 cards to get lucky, and you can pick your spots. When calling an all-in with a tiny 3rd pair with just 2 cards to come, like you did there, you are looking at giving your opponent too many chips.
**There are 2 outs and 2 'anti-outs' for your hoped-for trips (J's are antiouts, and would be blocking the joy of your hoped-for trip 3's), 3 outs and 6 anti-outs for your 2 pair (6's or 8's are anti-outs, blocking your possible pair of twos), and 40-something other cards that will lead you to lose that hand. If you had held a crummy hand like Q3, that would have helped against the anti outs because of the overcard outs. (I'm not advocating holding Q3, just illustrating the weakness of drawing with 3rd pair and even weaker drawing kicker.)

Worked out for you. Good for you.

I like the sentiment, but I think you're pushing it too hard here. Blinds of 150 aren't putting make/break pressure on a stack of 1500. If it were a stack of 500, or blinds of 600 or 800, I'd be with you.

I think it's a terrible play. It's the bubble - do you really want to double up a short stack? Now it's going to take longer to get ITM.

Quote:

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Worked out for you. Good for you.

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Actually sounds like it was very bad for me.

Nothing like a bad move getting lucky to teach you to play badly.

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I was reading Him/Her as either: JJ or a flush draw.

I just dont see what other hand she would push all in with and not raise before the flop with the way he/she had been playing. (if she had a set or some other monster heads up, she would probally have checked and let me raise into her [i'm very aggressive, she would have been 90% sure of a bet after a check, and 100% after a second check])

That leaves her with either JJ, or a flush draw.

A flush draw without the 8d is beat (I have about 65% to win)

A pair of Jacks and I would need to have either of the 3's, or one of the three 2's left in the deck. (about 20% chance to win)

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Now dont get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with everyone, I'm just trying to explain what I was thinking.

Basically, Looking back, even assumeing my line of thought was 100% correct, it's still a bad call simply because there are better times to make that same move.

My only excuse is that the blinds move a lot slower at the end of a SnG at UB than i'm used to at Royal Vagas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Laeelin

A flush draw without the 8d is beat (I have about 65% to win)

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Not even close.

You forget all you have is a pair of friggin threes.

If he is on a flush draw with any two diamonds (except the 2d), he wins 54% of the time.

Your reasoning was flawed, as mentioned above. Sure, you have a chance of knocking out the short stack, but it's a small one. They're already short stacked. The blinds will eventually knock them out for you. I'd worry more about getting some of the middle stacks down into short stack position.

Many people seem to call a lot bets (especially pushes) from short stack because of the elimination chance. But when I play short stack, I make sure I'm way ahead when I push. Result: most of the time they double me up and I become a force to contend with. I've placed ITM in at least half a dozen SnGs purely for this reason.

Don't obsess about getting them out. It'll happen soon enough as long as no one lets them pick their moments to play hands.

now if he checked to you, i can see pushing him all-in with only a pair of 3s because you aren't dead if you lose and you are now putting the pressure on him to call. also, you had the big stack. when he limped into your big blind with your big stack, chances are he didn't have much, and he didn't. you should have used your stack to push him around some. when he limped to call your big blind, you very easily could have just pushed all-in right then and he would have folded and been scared to limp into your blinds in the future. having a big stack on the bubble here is a good time to bully people around because they dont want to lose out in 4th. when he pushed all his chips in on the flop however, this tells me hes probably got something because he probably wont bluff a big stack in this stage when you definately have the chips to call. for him its probably not worth the bluff if there is a good chance of him being knocked out if called. this is something you have to be thinking about this. after realizing hes probably pushing with a decent/good hand, you have to lay it down, its just not worth the risk to give someone a chance to double up because he would have been right back in the tournament if you didn't hit on the turn or river.

Makes sense, thanks all!

If you have this much of a chip lead, you don't actually want to eliminate players - everyone except you is probably going to be tight hoping someone else will go out. With that stack I'd raise almost every time pre flop, but fold to any aggresision because as said above anyone who re raises you almost has to have a hand.