Playing against a table full of maniacs

Usually I play the 0.05$/0.10$ NL table on pokerstars. I did pretty well the last few weeks, constantly winning some money.
So today I thought of giving paradise poker a try. I found a table, sat down with 10$ and watched the action the first few rounds.

I couldn't believe my eyes, the action was pretty loose .. I was already thinking how sweet it is to double or tripple up my stack :wink:
Well, it didn't go as planned, after about 200 hands I lost 12$. It was total insanity. Sometimes I had the feeling, that I was playing with high stakes players who wanted to pass some time and have fun at microlimits while waiting for a seat at the 100$, 200$ or whatever tables. The whole table played any 2 suited cards (39s? no problem ... T3s? let's go), about half of the players played any pocket cards, as long as there was one face-card (Q4o? any 2 cards can win..), and one player limped with EVERYTHING. One time he won a pot with 93o ... I asked "you call with 93o pre-flop?" - he answered "for .10$? sure"

I had so many premium hands (AA, KK, QQ, AK, AKo,...), but all got cracked by some crap cards. I raised 5xBB, and everyone plus their mother called with a 25 suited flush draw.
One time I flopped a medium set and a raising war broke out between 4 players. I was afraid of a bigger set, straight or flush draw, so I layed my set down. Eventually some fish took down the pot with 2 medium pairs.
Next time I pushed my set pretty hard and got rivered by a full house because the maniac called my bets all the way.

So how do play against such a table? Do you play ultratight and wait for the nuts? Or do you loosen up, seeing more flops and hope for some pots with medium cards?

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Originally Posted by black666

I raised 5xBB, and everyone plus their mother called with a 25 suited flush draw.

So how do play against such a table? Do you play ultratight and wait for the nuts? Or do you loosen up, seeing more flops and hope for some pots with medium cards?

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I play good drawing hands for cheap.. (suited connectors and one gappers 56s and higher). when you get a premium hand preflop raise bigger than 5x, 10x or more at these limits. someone will call you...

- sed

Mhmm, I don't know. I tried to limp at some hands with medium suited connectors. The flop then gave me medium pair, a straight draw or a low flush draw. As expected some maniacs bet 3-5xBB and I don't have the odds of drawing, so I fold. :(

yeah but when you hit trips or higher.... you get payed off

I should note that I like to have a nice family pot (4-5+) to play these.

The answer is you dont worry about it and look for another game. In my opinion in a full ring game you want at most around 4 maniancs. If everyone is a maniac at your table it just becomes an all out luck fest alot of times. Look for a table with less maniacs and play a solid game to get them to pay you off.

This is the kind of table that if you can build a respectable stack early you can dominate by not fearing the suckout. At this kind of table, all you have to fear is fear itself. That is to say hesitant play doesn't work at all. It's like playing 100-200 no limit play money tables. You walk in with 5000 chips and two guys have over a million. You can never limp. The only chance you have is to camp on monsters and double through a few times. High stack is golden at a pushy table.

I go to a home game like this. Most people buy in for 5 bucks. I buy in for 20 right away. I know that's the only chance I have against these maniacs. I have to feel like I can look someone up who is bluffing their pants off a couple times and not feel like my stack was violated if I lose.

when I played .05/.10 on vcpoker, I'd make most of my raises $1 straight... sometimes $2 if it was a loose table. These guys are looking to gamble, and may even push back at you, so get your money in there.

lol gotta learn to pick your fights by doing a better table selection. although sometimes im guilty of blowing off some money at the micro limits too when im done for the day. these is nothing u can do if they are intent on doin that. i would 4 bet suited connectors and come out betting waitinf for runner runner flush or str.

actually i find this an interesting excerise on how to dominate the table. like how some real life pros play blind i find that its pretty interesting to see how people react to online bets sometimes.

btw if u only bought in 10 bucks at paradise i suggest going to the fl tables and building up the bankroll before taking on nl. i find fl a way better way to build your bankroll. look for manics tables and play suited connectors. lovely pot odds to chase your flushes :)

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Originally Posted by schenk

btw if u only bought in 10 bucks at paradise i suggest going to the fl tables and building up the bankroll before taking on nl.

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Aehm, $10 ist the max-buyin for the $0.05/$0.10 NL tables at paradise .. my bankroll ist bigger, I just can't take any more money to the table.

Anyway, I think I've figured it out ... yesterday I played about 200 hands and made +20$. I was playing 2 tables (so I don't get bored and play hands I have no business being in) and I try to limp with suited connectors, any pocket pair or group 0-6 hands. If I hit at least top pair on the flop I check around and when it is checked to the turn I bet 3xBB (1 out of 2 times you can win it right there ... seems like maniacs only check if they nothing, not even a draw). As soon as I'm faced with a bet or raise, I'm out. I also fold any hand pre-flop if I can't limp (except premium hands from group 0+1 .. maybe 2)

Other then that I'm just waiting for a monster on the flop (straight, A-high flush, a set and so on). Then I push it and usually get 1 or 2 caller ... If there is another draw possibility on the table that can beat my hand I go all'in right away. I want to take it right there or get heads up with a maniac who is trying to draw against their odds.

I played like this yesterday and got 3 pots where I had a maniac all-in. 2 I've won and 1 I've lost ... plus some nice pots here and there where even the maniacs didn't want to go all-in.

I'll try again tonight, but it seems to work just fine - maybe I'll make some adjustments...could be a good way to build my bankroll for higher NL tables (and hopefully better players) and get the buy-ins for SnGs or MTT :P

I played a very straight forward game trying to get to 500 raked hands on Trident Poker the other day. At the most I was at 5 tables because the hand only counts if the casino rakes 25 cents. I made $36 getting my raked hands which was nice because coming into that my cash game skills needed some work. My style of play that worked on this level would've gotten destroyed on like a 2/4 table though.

Ya. I find that I'm getting killed on value at the low limits. Since people see so many flops and call down so often, I'm scared to put the value bet in on the river if there is even a whiff of straight or flush.

On the other hand, I'll call down with middle pair too often - for the same reason.

if it's always raised and reraised before the flop ( 3 or 4 BB), i think it's not worthwile to play most of the drawing hand.
I don't want to pay 3 BB each time i have KXs, JTs, T9s, 98s 22,33.
hands like that become too expensive.

On the other hand, with big maniac, you are sure to get huge action on your big hand : AA KK QQ JJ AK AQ
You might even go all in with thoses hands since they call with anything in this low NL holdem

NB : if players are willing to call any bet, don't raise 5 BB. raise 7, 8 or even 10 BB and see what happen. If they don't call you, then go back to 6 BB.

I remember a game when i begun to play where i use to go all in with AA, KK and QQ and often get called.

sorry dude but limping in with crap does not make someone a "manaic." we are talking about a dime right? you don't have to be a "high stakes" player to call a 5xBB bet when that turns out to be 50 cents. i mean, most working folks that i know are happy to pay $10 for a nice martini, so why would going all-in at a $10 table be a big deal?

my advice to you is that if you are uncomfortable with the (effective) stakes that your opponents are playing, move tables. but if you want to win a lot of money at these tables, you gotta get over your fear of "large" (in terms of BB) bets and put more money out there to protect your hands. bet $3 next time you get AA and see who calls. if you still get too many calls, bet $5 next time. it may seem illogical to you as a player focused on BB's, but that $5 is just a little gamble to someone who is on a $50,000+ salary.

folding a set?? you gotta shake your fear of betting or you will not succeed at this game.

ChezJ

This is the perfect thread for me. It took me 1000's of hands at 25nl on party to figure this out.

Chez is right on the money, those players don't care about the money. They are just out having a good time. You on the other hand, are playing good poker and attempting to get better.

Fold a set? What are you thinking? GO ALL IN. You WANT people with flush draws to call, this is how you make money in poker. Make people make bad decisions over and over and over, and you make money long term. This is called EV, Expected Value.

You have to not think of these 200 hands or these 200 hands. You need to think, these 20,000 hands, and these 20,000 hands. You could play PERFECTLY for a session of 500 hands, and lose money. But if you do it every time you sit down, you win. Don't be upset if you lose, because even the best players in the world lose.


On to low limits: If you are on a """"normal"""" table that just happens to be microlimit, play normally. Otherwise : Play ANY pocket pair to up to a small raise. If you hit you set, bet AT LEAST 2x THE POT. If you flop two pair, bet AT LEAST 2x THE POT. TPTK? Bet the POT.

You have top 2 pair, You have a set, You have str8flush draw? If you get BET or RAISED at, Move AI, every time. These are all going to be large EV+ moves that you want to make.

Most importantly, Don't play afraid.