I can beat stronger players, but I lose more to weak players

My friends just play poker for fun, and call basically everything, sometimes I will raise pre-flop with something like A-K or QQ and they get mad at me for raising preflop, they just like to check the whole way through, they call everything preflop, even with garbage like 4-5 offsuit just because they are connected. The thing is the always catch. What can i do if i can't bluff them, and I can't catch anything. I've had success, I still win more money than I lose, but when i play against better players who follow general poker strategy I win 75% of the time. These guys call preflop everytime just to see the flop and they always seem to catch ,any suggestions on what to do?

Don't bluff.

Keep raising premium hands preflop.

Raise bigger if they keep calling with crap. While it's unlikely that one person will catch something against you, it's more likely that someone from a field of the whole table will. Will they seriously call 1/4 their stack preflop with 45o? Keep searching for the point at which they deem the raise scarey and start using that.

beating these guys is too easy, just play your hands and let them sponsor them with 4,5o....not that hard...just dont get dragged in to their calling strategy...and just so they dont fold to your every raise, try to act pissed off when u have to fold 5,6 to their raise just to hide that you actually take the game seriously...;)

Bad beats can occur but youre winning in the long run so no problem...If I had friends that suck that bad I would loose on purpose once in a while...otherwise I would not be a nice person.

Good luck

I wish I played against players like that.

My friends are actually competent (most of them anyhow) at the poker table.

I play with a bunch of fish in my home game. When I catch decent hands, they basically give their money away.

This is an old song here and we all know the words. "I can't play people that suck, only people who rule." It's just patently false. Last night I had my nineteenth wet dream about playing at a table like this.

All you have to do is play "correctly" for that table. Why does everyone think there's One Good Way to play?

-Your big pairs are just big pairs. People will call and call, so you sorta play KK for the set.
-Play all drawing hands. If they're so passive, they're constantly giving you free cards. In mid/late position go down to 43s, 54o, 75s, 86o, why not?. Count your backdoor draws as 1.5 outs instead of one, since they'll check the turn quite a bit.
-the 3/4BB PF raise doesn't do the job here. Try 5 or 6.

I'm obviously not the best player in the world, but when I play decent players I seem to do better, we had a 60 person No limit tourney in school and I came 2nd, when I go to play with the people who are known to play poker I usually win. Great tips though, I'll keep them in mind. I never thought of actually playing the drawing hands, I'm so used to playing the hands im supposed to be playing, but I guess against players like these, these ARE the hands I should be playing :P

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Originally Posted by Dynamyk

I'm obviously not the best player in the world, but when I play decent players I seem to do better, we had a 60 person No limit tourney in school and I came 2nd, when I go to play with the people who are known to play poker I usually win. Great tips though, I'll keep them in mind. I never thought of actually playing the drawing hands, I'm so used to playing the hands im supposed to be playing, but I guess against players like these, these ARE the hands I should be playing :P

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I can understand where you are coming from - I used to experience similar problems.

When you play against strong players who know what they are doing, you play good startegy poker - and so do they. You're playing the right game for the situation. This strategy doesn't work against a whole table of fishy calling stations who will see the flop (and usually the turn) with any rubbish, though. The combined strength of your opponents means that one of them will probably hit something to beat you.

Adjust your strategy. Do raise with strong hands pre-flop (big pairs, AK etc), but also go looking for a hand more. Try to get a bit of cash in the pot with suited connectors. When you hit the flush or the top end of the straight, you will get paid off.

I had to adjust my play accordingly and it worked. Fish will provide you with greater profits in the long run than good players will. But you will need to be patient and wait to make that huge hand.

But even top players can struggle against weak opposition. A lot of pros play their normal game against internet players live and then hate it when they lose to a "poor" play. So you're not alone!

Simply put, your playing on a "drawing table". You'll see a higher percentage of made flushes and straights on it. A high stack is VERY valuable on a table like this. That's because there is a high variance factor. With a high stack you make them pay deep to draw and shrug off a suckout. On a drawing table WITHOUT a high stack, it's safer not to push hard with TPTK.

Your friends are groaning at preflop raises because they play drawing poker. Recognize and adapt. Build a high stack by schooling with the fish and putting a little more money in the pot when you have more outs than they have on a draw. Don't be pushy, just build modestly with good outs. That's why you play connectors more as stated earlier. Then a magical thing happens, you have a big stack. That's when you change your style. Where you were once stooping to their level, now you go from being one of them to being tax collector. Instead of paying the pot to draw, they begin paying you to draw. Now you can push pretty hard with TPTK. I'm not talking about all in. I'm talking about making it improper for them to draw. Make half pot bets. Next thing you know they missed a couple draws and only your eyes can be seen over the top of your stack.

Some nights they'll hit lots of draws, and you'll lose your high stack. Once your stack dwindles you begin drawing with them again with good outs. Once again don't push too hard, and so on and so on. Surf that variance wave. It is bigger than you.

Bleh, the luck continues, I get dealth Pocket Kings in the BB, I get 3 limpers. I raise 5x the BB and they all call. I'm thinking WTF. The flop comes A-K-3 rainbow.

Now I'm thinking one of them has an ace and I can get some money off of him, so I check. the next person raises the minimum, that seems to be the only thing they raise. the next person raises again, the person next to him calls and I call. Next card comes a 6. Again, I check, the same thing happens except I reraise this time a good amount. One guy folds this time. Both guys call, I'm putting one of them, maybe both on an ace. Hopefully not pocket rockets. A 7 comes up on the river. I check, the next guy checks and the final guy who has been raising raises again. I'm thinking in case he has pockets I'll just call so I call and the next guy folds (he later told me he had a mid pocket pair). So we flip them up and he has 4-5 offsuit catching a straight.

Wtf can I do about this, I felt i played the hand right, I raised a huge amount preflop considering how we've been playing and he called with 4-5 the whole way through. I don't know what to do anymore.

I think you mean you can beat predictable players, not necessarily 'stronger' players. Many strong players will be in pots with hands you wouldn't expect. Try to follow the above information and most especially don't bluff.

Dynamyk in my opinion you didnt play tha hand correctly. If you think that at least one of your opponents has an ace do you also think that they will call your raises, most certainly they will. Then just keep on betting and betting, cause if they really are passive you are the who has to do all the betting here. If you see that there is even a possibility for a flush draw or oesd bet the pot. If they have the draw and they are true fishes they will call. If they have the A they might call as well. If their draws bust turn is the last chance to get money from then unless you can make them to bluff against you..

Against calling stations you can draw cheaply and push your good hands hard. This is something that I also have to work with.

You don't wanna play better players, you want to play a different kind of bad player.

You can only "beat" a different kind of bad player. The loose calling stations = a lot of money and easy to play against. You've gotta learn how to beat these types of opponents. You want to beat weak/tight players who fold too much, you only think you can beat them becuase this is the only thing your opponents don't do. You could beat them easily, but it has less of a payout and with it less variance.

Just one of my pet peeves, the "I can beat better players" thread. That's all.

-'rilla

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Originally Posted by Dynamyk

I get dealth Pocket Kings in the BB, ..The flop comes A-K-3 rainbow... I check. the next person raises the minimum, that seems to be the only thing they raise. the next person raises again, the person next to him calls and I call.

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You got greedy. The flop was the place to narrow the field (i.e. the guy with the gutshot). That's the safer play -- it pays off less, but more consistently. You went for the risky play. That will pay off more, but when it cracks it hurts.

Not sure what your turn raise was like but opp now has OESD and is tough to get rid of.

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Originally Posted by Dynamyk

I raise 5x the BB and they all call. I'm thinking WTF.

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Instead of thinking "wtf these guys all called my raise they suck" you should be thinking. "Damn, all I've got is a big pair. which does not hold up well multiway... If there's no A on the flop I gotta charge at it."

Thanks for all the advice again, I guess it's not better people who I play better against, it's just more conventional players. Really I think it's just the fact I can't get a read on them because the fact they call with anything.

The reason I said i play against better players is because I play 40-50 dollar buyin games with guys who play at casinos all the time and are decently successful and I usually finish top 2-3 there, yet I only finish 4th with my friends. I win a lot with my friends yet I think I should be able to win more than I do. I just have a hard time playing with their style. They actually start bitching if i throw a raise in preflop.