Printable View
Lately (last two weeks) my ring games (.25/.5$ NL) have been full of guys limping preflop with AA and KK, then slowplaying if not forced to bet against a flush draw. What is going on? I can understand a limp from early position on a tight table looking for a reraise, but I've seen plenty limps from LP with 5-6 callers as well! Some TV-pro doing this lately or what?
Um, if you wont raise with AA. What will you raise with?
The game rewards the agressive, not the weak/tight.
-'rilla
I don't know if it's a fashion or if it's new. You may just be running into some bad players. I limp these hands very occasionally for a change-up, but that's typically in a short-handed or aggressive game where not many are seeing the flop, and I'm going after particular opponents who are tricky enough to warrant such tactics. In a standard low stakes, loose-ass ring game with 5 or 6 seeing the flop, this is as good as throwing the hand away most of the time.
I hate that everybody slowplays now if u bet u must not have a hand because everyone slowplays
You're absolutely right. Come play against me.Quote:
Originally Posted by TVDINNER
Bet more frequently and the hands were you get slowplayed will be easy to pick up on. (Big hint, they actually call on the turn.)Quote:
Originally Posted by TVDINNER
-'rilla
I agree. If you sat with ekillian and myself you might be really confused. Good players bet their hands. Bad players complain about bad beats when they let 5 people hang around until 5th street.Quote:
Originally Posted by ekillian
I generally like to play flop poker. Raise your good hands, and take down the pot before the turn hits. I'm not saying I don't slow play at all. I'm just saying it's something like 85% of the time I don't.
Good poker is all about taking down fifteen small pots instead of slowplaying yourself out of one big one.
As for people who limp with AA in NL ring games, it does seem to be a trend. These people think they're being cute. What they don't know is they're reducing the long term value of the most premium hand. These are the same people who say "My AA has been run down the last 5 times!", or "I hate AA. I always lose with it!" It's idiotic. These people are stupid. Please tell them why limping AA is incorrect if you see it happen. The disease is spreading.
Actually, don't tell them. More money for us :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
Laying back with aces:
***** Hand History for Game 2133489449 *****
$50 NL Hold'em - Tuesday, May 31, 09:27:36 EDT 2005
Table Table 36554 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: MikeStein200 ( $49.25 )
Seat 3: asics ( $63.75 )
Seat 4: Dutchb0y ( $48.6 )
Seat 5: thejonat ( $55.2 )
Seat 6: bradbraun ( $24.55 )
Seat 1: stressball10 ( $51.55 )
stressball10 posts small blind [$0.25].
MikeStein200 posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to stressball10 [ Ac Ad ]
asics folds.
Dutchb0y folds.
thejonat raises [$2].
bradbraun folds.
stressball10 calls [$1.75].
MikeStein200 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6d, 7d, 3h ]
stressball10 bets [$3].
thejonat calls [$3].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9s ]
stressball10 bets [$5].
thejonat calls [$5].
** Dealing River ** [ 2d ]
stressball10 bets [$5].
thejonat calls [$5].
stressball10 shows [ Ac, Ad ] a pair of aces.
thejonat doesn't show [ Tc, 6c ] a pair of sixes.
stressball10 wins $29 from the main pot with a pair of aces.
I wouldn't recommend this in full ring games, but when you sit with someone for a while in 6max, and know you'll be seeing the flop heads up, why not smooth call sometimes? I made a lot more money here than I probably would have if I raised him big before the flop.
Because he could have been chasing a diamond flush or a straight. The board was coordinating all over the place. You were asking to be run down. Drop the hammer. I mean shit, if a ten or six dropped on 4th or 5th street, you were screwed. Chase him out directly, and be happy with a small pot.Quote:
Originally Posted by dalecooper
All you have is one pair of aces. It's not a monster. It's not a hand that holds up well through 5 streets. It's value goes down each time another card drops. Especially on coordinating boards. There's only one way to win consistently with high pocket pairs....
See a good flop and DROP THE HAMMER.
Trust me. My AA and KK hands almost never hurt me. My AA hands get run down maybe 1 out of 10 times. I ALWAYS win with them.
I don't play every hand of poker out of a fear of someone catching up to me. You can only play this style if you're able to read your opponent well & disciplined enough to make a hard fold, though. If you're the type that's going all in with kings or aces no matter what, you may as well drop the hammer early in the hand when you're still probably ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
I would rather take an occasional risk if the situation is good for it. I would have to know how the opponent plays, have position on them, and have only the two of us in the hand. This is a good way to extract money from someone heads up. You can't play this way if you live in fear of the 4 or 5 outer.Quote:
Trust me. My AA and KK hands almost never hurt me. My AA hands get run down maybe 1 out of 10 times. I ALWAYS win with them.
It's worth pointing out, in any case, that I didn't exactly play this hand passively post-flop. I bet 3/4 of the pot on the flop, 1/2 the pot on the turn. Only my river bet was small relative to the pot, but with the flush draw coming down I didn't want to bet too strongly, so I deployed a pretty standard "auto-pilot" bet. The reason my turn bet was somewhat weaker than the flop was because the guy hesitated before calling me on the flop in such a way that I suspected all he had was a small piece of the board, or just overcards, and I wanted to make the bet callable when the turn card had most likely missed his hand.
I think of bets in poker in Sklansky terms - you want your opponents to make mistakes & not make them yourself. If you're ahead, you bet enough to make their call a bad one (in terms of pot odds), but not so much that their decision (to call or fold) is obvious. Give them the chance to make a mistake. If they do draw out on you, then you hopefully will figure it out and make the tough laydown.
After the flop here I'm still 80-20 ahead of him. I don't mind him calling my bets and chasing his five outer. After the turn he has more outs but only 1 card to come, so I'm still 80-20 ahead. Again, it doesn't bug me if he calls me there.
Fair enough. You did make him pay a lot to show down his giant pair of 6's, and you slowed down at the river when you felt you might be beat, only betting another $5. I play it differently is all. I push hard with high pockets when I feel someone might hang with a worse hand. If the table is on the tight side, I might simma down knowing I'm scaring away good money.
I'll do what dale did occasionally, especially if I know the person won't raise with rags and I know I'll get it heads up. The deception value can be well worth it. I don't always do this, though. I'll often just drop the hammer PF, drop the hammer on the flop... etc.
Sure, me too - most of the time. Like I said, I have to have very specific circumstances to just limp or smooth call with aces. Most of the time, I'm all about the hammer.
i will never ever limp in or slow play AA whether i win or lose that's fine, but everytime i slow playem i lose, 9 out of 10 i win, rather get blinds or lose than get drawn out
My note on dubalin prior to this hand is "slowplays AA to screw himself over" as this is not the first hand he's lost with AA
PokerStars Game #1813379232: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2005/06/01 - 20:28:43 (ET)
Table 'Fides' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Vertov ($116 in chips)
Seat 2: InsaneCane2 ($56.45 in chips)
Seat 4: Honkey123 ($29.55 in chips)
Seat 5: outphase ($142 in chips)
Seat 6: dubalin ($78.60 in chips)
Seat 7: Chegwidden ($100.90 in chips)
Seat 8: OddB ($128.90 in chips)
Seat 9: dsaxton ($239.40 in chips)
Vertov: posts small blind $0.50
InsaneCane2: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to outphase [9c Td]
dsaxton said, "turned quads, bet again, and got him to call again on the river"
Honkey123: folds
outphase: folds
dubalin: calls $1
Chegwidden: folds
OddB: folds
dsaxton: calls $1
Vertov: folds
InsaneCane2: checks
*** FLOP *** [8s 2h 8c]
InsaneCane2 said, "I think you win a lot here dont you sax?"
InsaneCane2: checks
dubalin: checks
dsaxton: bets $3
InsaneCane2: folds
dsaxton said, "not lately"
dubalin: calls $3
*** TURN *** [8s 2h 8c] [8d]
dubalin: checks
dsaxton: bets $5
dubalin: calls $5
*** RIVER *** [8s 2h 8c 8d] [Ah]
dubalin: bets $69.60 and is all-in
dsaxton: calls $69.60
*** SHOW DOWN ***
dubalin: shows [Ac Ad] (a full house, Aces full of Eights)
dsaxton: shows [9h 8h] (four of a kind, Eights)
dsaxton collected $155.70 from pot
InsaneCane2 said, "oh my"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $158.70 | Rake $3
Board [8s 2h 8c 8d Ah]
Seat 1: Vertov (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: InsaneCane2 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Honkey123 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: outphase folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: dubalin showed [Ac Ad] and lost with a full house, Aces full of Eights
Seat 7: Chegwidden folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: OddB folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: dsaxton (button) showed [9h 8h] and won ($155.70) with four of a kind, Eights
EDIT: here's the hand that made me write that note... same idea same players
POKERSTARS GAME #1812762858: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2005/06/01 - 18:58:00 (ET)
Table 'Fides' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: RoudyRick ($135.80 in chips)
Seat 2: Sevillano ($91.40 in chips)
Seat 3: xrobertx ($37.30 in chips)
Seat 4: Craiggers ($32.60 in chips)
Seat 5: outphase ($38.50 in chips)
Seat 6: dubalin ($109.10 in chips)
Seat 7: RounderGQ ($75.60 in chips)
Seat 8: OddB ($151.85 in chips)
Seat 9: dsaxton ($98.55 in chips)
OddB: posts small blind $0.50
dsaxton: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to outphase [7h Td]
RounderGQ said, "maybe"
RoudyRick: folds
Sevillano: calls $1
xrobertx: folds
Craiggers: folds
outphase: folds
Craiggers said, "nice call"
dubalin: calls $1
RounderGQ: folds
RounderGQ said, "ty"
OddB: folds
dsaxton: checks
*** FLOP *** [8h 3c 4d]
dsaxton: checks
Sevillano: bets $3
dubalin: calls $3
dsaxton: calls $3
*** TURN *** [8h 3c 4d] [9d]
dsaxton: checks
Sevillano: checks
dubalin: bets $4
dsaxton: calls $4
RounderGQ said, "can we all get along now so I can consentrate on take all of your money..."
Sevillano: folds
*** RIVER *** [8h 3c 4d 9d] [Ah]
RounderGQ said, "lol"
dsaxton: bets $7
dubalin: raises $94.10 to $101.10 and is all-in
dsaxton: calls $83.55 and is all-in
RounderGQ said, "steam raise"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
dubalin: shows [As Ad] (three of a kind, Aces)
dsaxton: shows [2s 5c] (a straight, Ace to Five)
dsaxton collected $198.60 from pot
Craiggers said, "wow"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $201.60 | Rake $3
Board [8h 3c 4d 9d Ah]
Seat 1: RoudyRick folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Sevillano folded on the Turn
Seat 3: xrobertx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Craiggers folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: outphase folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: dubalin showed [As Ad] and lost with three of a kind, Aces
Seat 7: RounderGQ (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: OddB (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: dsaxton (big blind) showed [2s 5c] and won ($198.60) with a straight, Ace to Five
Edit 2: didn't know the hero was a member here... go saxton!