Is $100 NL 6max trickier, or dumber?

I've been trying to figure this out all day. It's certainly not as weak-tight as $50 NL 6max, that's for sure. Just from playing today I've noticed the following trends at these tables:

1. Check-raising is an epidemic. Why bet a hand straight out when you can check-raise? Two different guys I saw would habitually raise pre-flop, get a caller, and check-raise on the flop. I started checking behind everybody with any hand for a while, I got so gunshy about it.

2. Weirdly passive play is also rampant. Raising huge before the flop and then calling down instead of betting - saw this repeatedly. One guy raised me big with AQ, flopped his ace, and never once initiated a bet or raised during the hand. I guess he had a read on me as aggressive and was hoping I'd string myself up? Or maybe he doesn't like money? Baffling.

I feel like at this level everyone is just trying to trap everyone else.

hey dale is this the first time you've tried $100nl 6max?

Yeah, yesterday was my first pass at it.

Its dumber. These guys are fucking idiots - I was just going to make a post about it. But they are harder to read and will call you down with underpairs and gutshot-backdoor-bottom-end straight draws on a double paired board on the river.

Today was a real fish fest. Look at this:

***** Hand History for Game 2175022497 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Wednesday, June 08, 13:14:26 EDT 2005
Table Table 36667 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: SmackinYaUp ( $134.4 )
Seat 4: dimikanev ( $31.7 )
Seat 5: ck10per3 ( $203.37 )
Seat 6: ggreatthings ( $101.66 )
Seat 3: KING_AA ( $88 )
Seat 2: Godspeaks2me ( $99 )
Godspeaks2me posts small blind [$0.5].
KING_AA posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmackinYaUp [ 3h 2h ]
dimikanev calls [$1].
ck10per3 calls [$1].
ggreatthings calls [$1].
SmackinYaUp folds.
Godspeaks2me raises [$9.5].
KING_AA folds.
dimikanev folds.
ck10per3 folds.
ggreatthings calls [$9].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9d, Qc, 7s ]
Godspeaks2me is all-In [$89]
ggreatthings calls [$89].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]
Godspeaks2me shows [ Kd, Ah ] high card ace.
ggreatthings shows [ 3d, Qd ] a pair of queens.
ggreatthings wins $199 from the main pot with a pair of queens

***** Hand History for Game 2175024965 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Wednesday, June 08, 13:15:15 EDT 2005
Table Table 36667 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: SmackinYaUp ( $134.4 )
Seat 4: dimikanev ( $30.7 )
Seat 5: ck10per3 ( $202.37 )
Seat 6: ggreatthings ( $201.66 )
Seat 3: KING_AA ( $87 )
Seat 2: Godspeaks2me ( $0 )
dimikanev posts small blind [$0.5].
ck10per3 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmackinYaUp [ Jd Ac ]
ck10per3: great call
SmackinYaUp: OMG
ggreatthings: thx
ggreatthings calls [$1].
SmackinYaUp raises [$4].
ck10per3: i was gonna say if you had the Q to call
KING_AA calls [$4].
dimikanev calls [$3.5].
ck10per3 folds.
ggreatthings: figured god was bluffin, he always does
ggreatthings calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qc, Ks, 3h ]
dimikanev checks.
ggreatthings:
ggreatthings checks.
SmackinYaUp checks.
KING_AA checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7d ]
dimikanev checks.
ggreatthings bets [$4].
SmackinYaUp folds.
KING_AA calls [$4].
dimikanev folds.
** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]
ggreatthings bets [$4].
KING_AA calls [$4].
ggreatthings shows [ Kd, 6s ] a pair of kings.
KING_AA doesn't show [ 9c, 9d ] a pair of nines.
ggreatthings wins $31.35 from the main pot with a pair of kings.


***** Hand History for Game 2174997773 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Wednesday, June 08, 13:06:20 EDT 2005
Table Table 36667 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: SmackinYaUp ( $119.6 )
Seat 2: parasus ( $78.8 )
Seat 3: handOnuts ( $112.23 )
Seat 4: dimikanev ( $61 )
Seat 5: ck10per3 ( $115.35 )
SmackinYaUp posts small blind [$0.5].
parasus posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmackinYaUp [ Qh 3c ]
handOnuts calls [$1].
dimikanev calls [$1].
ck10per3 raises [$3.55].
SmackinYaUp folds.
parasus folds.
handOnuts calls [$2.55].
dimikanev calls [$2.55].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8s, 7c, 2s ]
handOnuts checks.
dimikanev checks.
ck10per3 bets [$10].
handOnuts calls [$10].
dimikanev folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6c ]
handOnuts checks.
ck10per3 bets [$19].
handOnuts calls [$19].
** Dealing River ** [ Ad ]
handOnuts checks.
ck10per3 bets [$23].
handOnuts is all-In [$79.68]
ck10per3 calls [$56.68].
ck10per3 shows [ Ac, Ks ] a pair of aces.
handOnuts doesn't show [ 7s, 9d ] a pair of sevens.
ck10per3 wins $227.51 from the main pot with a pair of aces.
great play
handOnuts has left the table.


***** Hand History for Game 2174906735 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Wednesday, June 08, 12:35:26 EDT 2005
Table Table 36667 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: handOnuts ( $120.03 )
Seat 1: SmackinYaUp ( $116.25 )
Seat 6: leandroo ( $27.5 )
Seat 4: dimikanev ( $20 )
SmackinYaUp posts small blind [$0.5].
handOnuts posts big blind [$1].
dimikanev posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
leandroo calls [$1]...
leandroo shows [ Jc, 2c ] a pair of twos.


***** Hand History for Game 2174899671 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Wednesday, June 08, 12:33:01 EDT 2005
Table Table 36667 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 2: Farstamannen ( $120.2 )
Seat 3: handOnuts ( $132.53 )
Seat 5: mildre ( $80.3 )
Seat 1: SmackinYaUp ( $99.85 )
Seat 6: leandroo ( $24.5 )
SmackinYaUp posts small blind [$0.5].
Farstamannen is sitting out.
handOnuts posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmackinYaUp [ Kh As ]
Farstamannen has left the table.
mildre folds.
leandroo raises [$2].
SmackinYaUp raises [$3.5].
handOnuts calls [$3].
leandroo calls [$2].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qc, 8h, 7s ]
SmackinYaUp checks.
handOnuts checks.
leandroo checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
SmackinYaUp bets [$8].
handOnuts calls [$8].
leandroo folds.
** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
SmackinYaUp bets [$13].
handOnuts calls [$13].
SmackinYaUp shows [ Kh, As ] a pair of aces.
handOnuts doesn't show [ 5h, Ac ] a pair of aces.
SmackinYaUp wins $52 from the main pot with a pair of aces with king kicker.

***** Hand History for Game 2174933707 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Wednesday, June 08, 12:44:40 EDT 2005
Table Table 36667 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 3: handOnuts ( $150.53 )
Seat 1: SmackinYaUp ( $99.5 )
Seat 6: leandroo ( $26 )
Seat 4: dimikanev ( $9.65 )
Seat 5: ck10per3 ( $127.35 )
Seat 2: parasus ( $100.3 )
parasus posts small blind [$0.5].
handOnuts posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmackinYaUp [ 9h 8c ]
dimikanev calls [$1].
ck10per3 folds.
leandroo calls [$1].
SmackinYaUp raises [$4].
parasus folds.
handOnuts calls [$3].
dimikanev calls [$3].
leandroo calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9s, 8s, 4s ]
handOnuts checks.
dimikanev is all-In [$5.65]
leandroo calls [$5.65].
SmackinYaUp raises [$11.3].
handOnuts folds.
ck10per3: not even Q? interesting
leandroo calls [$5.65].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3d ]
leandroo is all-In [$10.7]
SmackinYaUp calls [$10.7].
** Dealing River ** [ 7d ]
leandroo shows [ 3s, 3h ] three of a kind, threes.
SmackinYaUp shows [ 9h, 8c ] two pairs, nines and eights.
dimikanev doesn't show [ Qs, Jd ] high card queen.
leandroo wins $32.35 from side pot #1 with three of a kind, threes.
leandroo wins $31.8 from the main pot with three of a kind, threes.

And finally...

***** Hand History for Game 2175137728 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Wednesday, June 08, 13:51:25 EDT 2005
Table Table 36667 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: SmackinYaUp ( $135.35 )
Seat 2: Godspeaks2me ( $133.12 )
Seat 3: mafakin ( $55.82 )
Seat 5: ck10per3 ( $188.68 )
Seat 6: AF_82 ( $129.6 )
Seat 4: didly101 ( $100.85 )
Godspeaks2me posts small blind [$0.5].
mafakin posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmackinYaUp [ Kc Kd ]
didly101 folds.
ck10per3 raises [$3.5].
AF_82 folds.
SmackinYaUp raises [$7].
Godspeaks2me is all-In [$132.62]
mafakin folds.
ck10per3 folds.
SmackinYaUp calls [$126.12].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8h, 4d, 2d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 5d ]
SmackinYaUp shows [ Kc, Kd ] a flush, king high.
Godspeaks2me doesn't show [ Qh, Qc ] a pair of queens.
SmackinYaUp wins $268.74 from the main pot with a flush, king high.

I did get a little passive, but with a table full of calling stations its kinda hard to get yourself to bet into anyone with A high, let alone 3 people. I'm sure you will have fun though.


-edit- sorry for taking up so much room in your post. There were so many retarded hands that I had a hard time narrowing it down

I'm starting to realize this. At first I was just trying to import my $50 NL game... raise a lot, follow aggression with aggression on the flop, win a lot of small pots. I'm finding out that this approach doesn't work, because all these guys think they're beyond that kind of poker & will call you with any piece of the board. They seem to think everyone else is always bluffing, and any raise means the raiser has AK. Frankly, yesterday I felt like I was playing a table full of Ripptydes.

Now I'm adapting my game... laying back more, betting less often except when I have the cards to back it up.

There's one guy I have played with at a few tables already - screen name Chip_Remover. He always seems to be up so he's probably a winning player, but as far as I can tell this is the extent of his poker strategy:

1. Raise a lot before the flop with any decent hand - all pocket pairs, any two face cards, suited connectors.

2. If the flop helps you (or you have a pocket pair), bet.

3. If the flop misses you, check/fold.

It's just weird and uber-passive in some respects. I don't think the guy EVER makes continuation bets, even with just one opponent.

Yea they all think theyre poker gods. There are plenty of tables that are begging to be bullied around, but I think 100NL just requires more changing gears based on the players - which I have a hard time doing. I've seen chip_remover but only have 43 hands logged with him.

I wish you luck and I'm glad to see someone else at 100NL with me. I can't wait to hear more from it.

-And oh yea, you're going to love the idiotic shortstacks who buyin for $20, call your $4 preflop raises and checkraise allin every time.

Here's a gem. This guy is flat out horrible, and he's doubled his buy-in somehow. How do you call a 4xBB raise pre-flop, then a bet and raise on the flop, with that hand? And the obvious scare card comes off on the river - and he doesn't bet. What the heck?

I have no idea what Mr. Trip Queens was doing here either. This is poker in Bizarro World.

***** Hand History for Game 2175641849 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Wednesday, June 08, 16:06:24 EDT 2005
Table Table 37033 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 5: uraxgubben ( $104.8 )
Seat 4: stressball10 ( $147.91 )
Seat 6: Kford26 ( $166.05 )
Seat 3: JMelIC86 ( $164.05 )
Seat 1: Fritz111 ( $45 )
Seat 2: dmbigs ( $136 )
Fritz111 posts small blind [$0.5].
dmbigs posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to stressball10 [ 3h Ah ]
JMelIC86 raises [$5].
stressball10 folds.
uraxgubben folds.
Kford26 calls [$5].
Fritz111 folds.
dmbigs calls [$4].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ks, 6h, Qs ]
dmbigs bets [$5].
JMelIC86 raises [$10].
Kford26 calls [$10].
dmbigs folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ad ]
JMelIC86 checks.
Kford26 checks.
** Dealing River ** [ 8s ]
JMelIC86 checks.
Kford26 checks.
JMelIC86 shows [ Qc, Qh ] three of a kind, queens.
Kford26 doesn't show [ Jc, 6c ] a pair of sixes.
JMelIC86 wins $38.5 from the main pot with three of a kind, queens.

Yea, it can get pretty ridiculous at times. I see the calling stations making big stacks so much because people just keep betting into them with nothing, and its pretty much impossible to tell how strong their hands are. They will limp in with AK in LP, flop 2K8 and check call all the way down.

dale - i added chip_remover to my buddy list and watched him make a shitfuck of money. He was at two 100NL tables and one 200NL. He was sittin with $480 and $400 at the 100NL and about $600 at the 200NL. I would love to be crushin it like him.

Yeah people get a hell of alot looser the higher you go. I'm having a hell of a time at 400nl because all the players are either fish who will call you down with crap or good players who will raise the hell out of your cause they know you can't call.

I think that with increased aggression it places more pressure on people, and weak players don't react well to it and make stupid moves like in the hands you guys showed.

Originally Posted by Bmxicle

Yeah people get a hell of alot looser the higher you go. I'm having a hell of a time at 400nl because all the players are either fish who will call you down with crap or good players who will raise the hell out of your cause they know you can't call.

I think that with increased aggression it places more pressure on people, and weak players don't react well to it and make stupid moves like in the hands you guys showed.

So how do you react? And specifically against a mixed group


Against all of these annoying fucking calling stations I have just now decided that I am going to limp in a lot, see cheap flops and break them down slowly when I hit. If I get a good hand I will still raise it, but if a calling station is in the pot, I am going to stop continuation betting. If it's a normal player, Ill bet.

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

Originally Posted by Bmxicle

Yeah people get a hell of alot looser the higher you go. I'm having a hell of a time at 400nl because all the players are either fish who will call you down with crap or good players who will raise the hell out of your cause they know you can't call.

I think that with increased aggression it places more pressure on people, and weak players don't react well to it and make stupid moves like in the hands you guys showed.

So how do you react? And specifically against a mixed group


Against all of these annoying fucking calling stations I have just now decided that I am going to limp in a lot, see cheap flops and break them down slowly when I hit. If I get a good hand I will still raise it, but if a calling station is in the pot, I am going to stop continuation betting. If it's a normal player, Ill bet.

Yeah i back off on raising with marginal stuff, and just limp it and try to hit a hand against them. If i raise i will still usually make a continuation bet regardless of the player. Altough sometimes i wonder whether making contuation bets against some of these players is +EV. I've also started betting the turn against some players occasionally because alot of players will back off then. But i only do that with hands like AK on draw heavy boards, where it is possible my hand still might even be good.

i need $$ so i can get off the goddam micro limits.. anyone wanna stake me ?

I play the $100 NL 6-max tables at Party as well (but I avoid you guys because I want to win money).

I find that at these tables there is a lot more flush draws (not just Ax or suited connectors flush draws but crap flush draws). I see this happening a lot more than when I played $50 NL 6-Max. Also, you cannot shake a player off a flush draw at these tables heads-up for anything less than a pot-size bet, and that quite often is still insufficient.

I also see a lot more bluff or semi-bluff raises into scary boards.

Finally, the VP$IP is skyhigh for some folks. I use Poker Edge and I have sat at tables where everyone but me is 50%+ (some as high at 80%). If you can find a table where the VP$IP of your opponents are very high, and their Preflop raise and aggression factor are low, I find you can really clean up. I play at night and it takes about 10-15 minutes to find that type of table, but they are out there.

On the subject of VP$IP, I am running at about 30%, where are the rest of you at? For a 6-max table, is that too high, too low, or ok?

I will finish with two hand histories. I lost some big hands by people drawing out on me with -EV plays, but I have also cracked some folks that play "bad" flush draws and the board "appeared" to help them (Hand 1), or tried to bluff on a scary board (Hand 2).


***** Hand History for Game 2097430104 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Tuesday, May 24, 05:27:51 EDT 2005
Table Table 36825 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 4: blueclub ( $113.31 )
Seat 1: spin_a_wheel ( $171.9 )
Seat 3: rook_407 ( $141.58 )
Seat 5: tshow ( $73.2 )
Seat 6: vtboarder711 ( $48.25 )
Seat 2: MehNiceRiver ( $115.3 )
MehNiceRiver posts small blind [$0.5].
rook_407 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to spin_a_wheel [ As Jh ]
blueclub calls [$1].
tshow calls [$1].
vtboarder711 folds.
spin_a_wheel raises [$4].
MehNiceRiver calls [$3.5].
rook_407 folds.
blueclub calls [$3].
tshow calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ah, 3h, Js ]
MehNiceRiver checks.
blueclub bets [$10].
tshow folds.
spin_a_wheel raises [$20].
MehNiceRiver folds.
blueclub is all-In.
spin_a_wheel calls [$89.31].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 6h ]
spin_a_wheel shows [ As, Jh ] two pairs, aces and jacks.
blueclub doesn't show [ Jd, 3d ] two pairs, jacks and threes.
spin_a_wheel wins $233.62 from the main pot with two pairs, aces and jacks.

***** Hand History for Game 2016891411 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Sunday, May 08, 04:55:24 EDT 2005
Table Table 37049 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: lidell__ ( $111.48 )
Seat 2: Sirphatman ( $30.85 )
Seat 3: joshco01 ( $3 )
Seat 5: Boothy004 ( $115.44 )
Seat 6: spin_a_wheel ( $146 )
spin_a_wheel posts small blind [$0.5].
lidell__ posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to spin_a_wheel [ Ks Ac ]
Sirphatman folds.
joshco01 folds.
Boothy004 calls [$1].
spin_a_wheel raises [$3.5].
lidell__ folds.
Boothy004 calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ah, Jh, Qc ]
>You have options at Table 36615 (6 max) Table!.
spin_a_wheel bets [$8.56].
Boothy004 raises [$17.12].
spin_a_wheel calls [$8.56].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ts ]
spin_a_wheel bets [$20].
Boothy004 is all-In.
spin_a_wheel calls [$74.32].
** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]
spin_a_wheel shows [ Ks, Ac ] a straight, ten to ace.
Boothy004 doesn't show [ Td, 9h ] a pair of tens.
spin_a_wheel wins $229.88 from the main pot with a straight, ten to ace.

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

dale - i added chip_remover to my buddy list and watched him make a shitfuck of money. He was at two 100NL tables and one 200NL. He was sittin with $480 and $400 at the 100NL and about $600 at the 200NL. I would love to be crushin it like him.

I'm telling you, I just gave you the keys to the convertible on that one. Raise your good hands 2 or 3xBB, then stop betting unless you hit. I've played with him for a total of about 3 hours the last couple days and that's all he does. It's amazingly predictable. I doubt I'll ever lose money to him again, but others on the site are handing it over like it was a stack of poisonous toads instead of poker chips.

He might be on to something - I thought he was on AJ this whole hand


***** Hand History for Game 2180122025 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Thursday, June 09, 12:31:05 EDT 2005
Table Table 36867 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: mumme63 ( $139 )
Seat 2: Chip_Remover ( $114.35 )
Seat 3: wstr8man ( $157.65 )
Seat 4: siroonian ( $140.5 )
Seat 6: picchio81 ( $78.81 )
mumme63 posts small blind [$0.5].
Chip_Remover posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
wstr8man calls [$1].
siroonian calls [$1].
picchio81 folds.
mumme63 calls [$0.5].
Chip_Remover raises [$3].
wstr8man calls [$3].
siroonian calls [$3].
mumme63 calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, Jd, 4c ]
mumme63 checks.
Chip_Remover bets [$8].
wstr8man folds.
siroonian calls [$8].
mumme63 calls [$8].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3c ]
mumme63 checks.
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Chip_Remover bets [$30].
siroonian folds.
mumme63 calls [$30].
** Dealing River ** [ 8s ]
mumme63 checks.
Chip_Remover is all-In [$72.35]
mumme63 calls [$72.35].
mumme63 shows [ Th, Jh ] three of a kind, jacks.
Chip_Remover shows [ 4h, 4d ] a full house, Fours full of jacks.
Chip_Remover wins $242.7 from the main pot with a full house, Fours full of jacks.