$200NL --> $400NL

I guess you all know what this is going to be about from the topic.

Anyway, here is a quick overview:

Until recently I've played 5max on PokerRoom (100NL+200NL) where I made a good amount of money, cashed out some (bought another monitor etc) and then made some more. (~6ptBB/100, 40k+ hands).

My bankroll is after another 1k cashout (last one for a while I hope) around 8,6k dollarz. Before my monitor cashout and another one that I needed I was around 10k and took some shots at 5max 400NL. Didn't feel too comfortable and played only 1,5k hands or so. Anyway, now I feel pretty confident in my game (winning steadily, BR growing if it weren't for the cashouts) and are playing at Party 200NL. (Feeling good but only 5k hands there or so yet).

Questions:
How is the Party 400NL compared to the 200NL?
How big BR would you like to take shots/play there full time?
How much bigger swings can I expect if I move up?

I play 6 tables at around 18/14/3 or so, planning to drop a few tables if I move up to start with.

Any thoughts, comments or tips? Everything is much appretiated.

fwiw, I've had a lot more trouble at 400 then 200. I'm at 4.3 ptbb/100 over 64k at 200 compared to 0.3 over 57k My game is similar to yours btw, 20/13/3.

I think it's ok too move up if you're confident about your game and are mentally prepared for the bigger swings (+/- 2K in a day is pretty normal). The higher variance is only a problem if you're a breakeven or marginal winner though, let's say long term 0-2 bb/100. 20 buyin swings are not uncommon then.

sandstorm wahts your pp sn? I don't want to take money from ftrers

Originally Posted by midas06

sandstorm wahts your pp sn? I don't want to tangle with ftrers

FYP

While i havent played on the party 400 tables since i switched to FT (in january) i didnt think the skill level was that much different from the nl 200. Besides the bigger variance as long as you are properly rolled you should be able to handle it. Id say about 10k seems right. I dont know if youy multitable but try sitting at one table when you move up and taking good notes on your opponents. I think youll find that the average skill level isnt that much higher, and especiaslly at peak hours there are loads of donks. If youre beating the nl 200 tables then you shouldnt have that much of a problem. Like I said before I would wait a littl ebit before I start multitabling tho.

sandstorm,
How is Party vs. PR at 200NL? Looser/Tighter? More/Less Aggresive? Thx.

Originally Posted by r8ed

sandstorm,
How is Party vs. PR at 200NL? Looser/Tighter? More/Less Aggresive? Thx.

dunno yet reallty. PR was lagging so badly for me so i switched much for that reason, and maybe try it out. if i can't find as good tables i'll just change back. PR is insanely insane somtimes and a TAGG-fest others. we'll see how it goes in a few k hands or so

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

fwiw, I've had a lot more trouble at 400 then 200. I'm at 4.3 ptbb/100 over 64k at 200 compared to 0.3 over 57k My game is similar to yours btw, 20/13/3.

I think it's ok too move up if you're confident about your game and are mentally prepared for the bigger swings (+/- 2K in a day is pretty normal). The higher variance is only a problem if you're a breakeven or marginal winner though, let's say long term 0-2 bb/100. 20 buyin swings are not uncommon then.

What do you think are your biggest problems when moving up then? Anything specific or is it just generally?

the biggest problem when players try to move up is either being underolled, thus exposing themselves to ruin through normal variance, or playing scared. as long as you can maintain confidence and play a solid game, then you will be fine. it's really that simple. don't be afraid to hover back and forth between levels if that is what it takes to bring your existing confidence into the new level. FWIW, when i'm running bad and/or playing bad at $5/10 i am not too proud to move down to $2/4 to ride it out. results are cyclical so you have to adjust.

fwiw, my hardest jumps were 100>200 and 600>1000.

but maybe i just ran well at the right times..

I'd recommend at least 12k before hitting 400nl, but then again I'm a BR nit. If you're comfortable dropping 20% of your BR taking a shot, then go for it.

I thought the transition from 200 -> 400 was one of the tougher ones, but this was on stars. There are still a ton of fish at 400, but the regs are much better and there is a definite step up in aggression.

I personally found 400NL to be one of the easiest transitions I ever made. If you can beat 200NL for 6ptbb for 40k hands, then you can do the same with 400NL.

I've always taken shots with 15-20 buyins for the next level whenever I'm running hot and feeling confident - and I depend on poker to pay the bills. If you get your ass kicked, moving back down doesn't suck like people think it will. Once you get past the ego hit, you'll find your old games feel so small and easy even if there isn't really a big difference in skill between the 2 levels.

I reccomend moving up and giving it a shot. In my opinion, the money you bring in from 400NL is where it all changes from poker being a profitable hobby to something much greater.

The hardest transition for me to make was from $100 to $200 NL. Going from $200 to $400 was a smooth transition for me as I didn't find the play to be appreciably different. Now that I'm playing a bit more $600 I haven' t found the play to be drastically better either. Like Gabe said, I've heard there is a pretty noticeable difference between $600 and $1000NL, but I'll try to conquer that hurdle when I come to it.

I also encourage you to move up as well. As Smackin mentioned, taking shots at a higher level makes the transition to that level easier when the time comes. It also can give you more confidence in playing your normal limits. I'd also like to echo Smackin's comment about the money you can make playing even just $400 NL. A solid player can fairly easy make $100K+ in a year at this level.

i didnt even notice 100->200 so maybe i'll get the hard part now

Originally Posted by sandstorm

i didnt even notice 100->200 so maybe i'll get the hard part now

It's obviously subjective, but if you're solildy beating $200 then I would think you would also do well playing $400.

lol

sustainable right guys?

I just recently moved up from 1/2 - 2/4 on Party, and the game definitely is a bit more aggro. I've had to make some tough call downs and my reads on individual players are far more critical (as opposed to grouping several players together) than they used to have to be. The regulars are a bit better as well, but they're not like good enough that they need to be avoided, at least particular players. I practice pretty good table selection and don't sit at tables full of regulars even if I feel I have an advantage, it's just not worth it.

I've been playing generally up to 6 tables at once ( as opposed to 9 tabling at 1/2), and often between 3-4. I try to have 6 up though. Anyways, So far I've had some pretty wild swings .. but then again my variance has always been relatively high compared to most.

thanks for your thoughts everyone, much appretiated

I haven't played the Party 400NL yet, but on other sites I haven't had any more variance than at 200NL. It does play differently than 200NL, however many of the players are still quite predictable and easy to read.

I might be playing 400NL at party with you guys for a while if thats ok

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

I might be playing 400NL at party with you guys for a while if thats ok

Busto?

Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

I might be playing 400NL at party with you guys for a while if thats ok

plz dont take my monies

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

Busto?

Only if you consider 8-tabling party 400NL for 42ptbb/100 for the next 100k hands like I plan on doing in the next 3 weeks busto.

Only putting in 40k hands in the last month and achieving less than desired results = me moving down.



End of hijack.


Good luck in your move to 400NL. If you see someone on every table there is, its probably me. Keep us updated.

I have seen a few "on-every-table" guys. Might be you then.

2500 hands so far, +$2700 (Running good when moving up for once)

if i started another of those "blogs" in poker etc, would anyone read it? i think it would be healthy for me.

Do it man, I would read it!