1/2: go red line, part 2

So this is how I play, it's as crazy as it gets. Let's hear the love and the hate.

Hand 1: Villain is playing 40/25/10 with 15% 3bet over small sample.

SB ($437.10)
BB ($957.25)
UTG ($227)
MP ($259.35)
Hero (CO) ($247)
Button ($205.55)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 2, 2
2 folds, Hero bets $7, 1 fold, SB calls $6, 1 fold

Flop: ($16) J, A, 5 (2 players)
SB bets $6, Hero raises to $12, SB raises to $36, Hero calls $24

Turn: ($88) Q (2 players)
SB bets $66, Hero calls $66

River: ($220) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $138 (All-In)

=======================================

Hand 2: Villain is a very very good lag, I remember him from way back but haven't played with him recently. He probably doesn't remember me though or think that I remember him. Loose and very high 3bet over very small sample.

Hero (CO) ($200)
Button ($200)
SB ($76.85)
BB ($200)
UTG ($212.20)
MP ($385.35)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, 7
2 folds, Hero bets $7, Button raises to $18.45, 2 folds, Hero calls $11.45

Flop: ($39.90) Q, 10, A (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $16.40, Hero calls $16.40

Turn: ($72.70) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $36.40, Hero calls $36.40

River: ($145.50) J (2 players)
Hero bets $128.75 (All-In)

i think on the 2nd one id rather c/c than shove

Originally Posted by gabe

i think on the 2nd one id rather c/c than shove

That's the big question. I just didn't think he would fire the river as a bluff. By shoving I'm expecting chops to fold and possibly a king. I'm just saying because I would fold a K here myself without much thought even.

Hand 1 - I mean... I like the river once he checks. But I think the turn is very spewy, given that he's not only showing strength, but we have no equity AND we need him to check the river to pull this off.

Hand 2 - I think its optimistic in this hand to expect Kx to fold. I like it vs chops I suppose, but how many aces does he 3bet with pre really? Is he 3betting A8 and stuff? I'd probably usually just c/f though.

1- obviously fold turn. river good

2- obviously fold turn. river bad

Thanks guys.

1. I don't understand how the flop can be fine but the TURN is spew? I made the conclusion from his stats, timing, line and sizing that he doesn't have it and simply decided not to give it to him. He isn't doing this flop play just to give up on the turn, but if he has any sense in him he will give up on the river. Even if he really has A5 then he will c/f it a lot.

2. I'm not folding top pair in a 3bet pot for 100bb vs this guy ever. I still can't decide about river line though, I just hate c/cing three streets. Do you both agree with gabe that c/c > shove?

Originally Posted by griffey24

I like it vs chops I suppose, but how many aces does he 3bet with pre really? Is he 3betting A8 and stuff?

He is fo sho 3betting any ace, regardless of colour or race. His 3bet was 25% over 100 hands. For all I know he could have 72o, but probably not since I've got a blocker.

I like hand 1 just fine, but hand 2 i'm kind of meh about. I feel like he doesn't expect us to ever fold that turn after we c/call flop but if he really is that aggro i'd probably just c/raise the flop small and hope he semibluffs like KQ or whatever and calls it off.

Originally Posted by pocketfours

2. I'm not folding top pair in a 3bet pot for 100bb vs this guy ever.

nice level

Sorry am I missing something? You guys all liked the flop on hand one where we minraise a 1/3 psb w/ 4th pr and no equity then call a 3x raise?

Why not donk out on turn in 2nd hand ?

Originally Posted by Ravageur

I like hand 1 just fine, but hand 2 i'm kind of meh about. I feel like he doesn't expect us to ever fold that turn after we c/call flop but if he really is that aggro i'd probably just c/raise the flop small and hope he semibluffs like KQ or whatever and calls it off.

I doubt he would turn KQ into a bluff. I think there's a lot of different lines we can take, but due to the wa/wb situation I still prefer a passive line to exploit his tendencies. Another possibility would be to b/c + c/c + c/c.

Here's an old hand vs villain in hand2 to put things into perspective.

Button ($873.30)
SB ($532)
Hero (BB) ($440.30)
UTG ($570)
MP ($300)
CO ($400)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, 2
3 folds, Button bets $14, 1 fold, Hero raises to $48, Button calls $34

Flop: ($98) 6, K, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $65, Button calls $65

Turn: ($228) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $88, Hero calls $88

River: ($404) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $672.30 (All-In), Hero calls $239.30 (All-In)

Total pot: $882.60 | Rake: $3

Results:
Button had J, 10 (high card, King).
Hero had 2, 2 (three of a kind, twos).
Outcome: Hero won $879.60

"Villain is a very very good lag"

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Here's an old hand vs villain in hand2 to put things into perspective.

Button ($873.30)
SB ($532)
Hero (BB) ($440.30)
UTG ($570)
MP ($300)
CO ($400)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, 2
3 folds, Button bets $14, 1 fold, Hero raises to $48, Button calls $34

Flop: ($98) 6, K, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $65, Button calls $65

Turn: ($228) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $88, Hero calls $88

River: ($404) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $672.30 (All-In), Hero calls $239.30 (All-In)

Total pot: $882.60 | Rake: $3

Results:
Button had J, 10 (high card, King).
Hero had 2, 2 (three of a kind, twos).
Outcome: Hero won $879.60

^ i think he played that hand fine cbat