1/2 trips deep vs donk bvb

59/40 over like 20 hands, no history, didn't see how he got that stack

he tanked for a little bit before making the enormous flop 3bet

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO chandler1981 ($137.30)
BTN Wei2Donk ($235.00)
SB S1rSc00pAL0t ($447.35)
BB Hero ($673.30)

Pre-flop: ($3, 4 players) Hero is BB
2 folds, S1rSc00pAL0t raises to $6 ($440.35), Hero calls $4 ($667.30)

Flop: ($12, 2 players)
S1rSc00pAL0t bets $8 ($433.35), Hero raises to $26 ($641.30), S1rSc00pAL0t raises to $122 ($311.35), Hero calls $96 ($545.30)

Turn: ($256, 2 players)
S1rSc00pAL0t bets $94 ($225.35)

Final Pot: $350

{edited by Stax for conversion}

I'm not thrilled about the spot 200bb deep, but against a player playing this aggressively I think he can definitely end up hanging himself often enough here to call turn and call river.

Just there aren't a whole lot of better situations you can ask for to try to get a lot of money in the pot against someone playing that crazy. For metagame reasons, folding would be terrible, you'd never get his stack.

I'll also note that I don't feel particularly great about his turn sizing, but what can you do? if he has 66 I think it's a cooler.

If he has normal stats I think folding the turn would be reasonable.

lol this is so sick when he turns over 33

Well it's a +EV calldown if he plays J9+, 66 in this manner 100% of the time. However, I still agree that his betsizing has me pretty damn worried. On the flop, his 3bet is just like wow, lets get the money in. On the turn, he seems to realize he has the nuts and is setting up for a pretty obvious river shove. Not 100% sure if he would do this with a worse 9x, but given his stats, most likely.

It's such a sick spot, but in the heat of the moment, I would look at his stats, and would likely call down pretty happily . Jeez, this spot is so gay this deep.

Also, I'm not sure I understand the merits of calling flop to fold turn really? Do we expect a donk to slow down with any hand he is going to 3bet the flop with this large? I really wouldn't think so, which makes it seem like our clear commitment decision is when facing the flop 3bet.

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Also, I'm not sure I understand the merits of calling flop to fold turn really? Do we expect a donk to slow down with any hand he is going to 3bet the flop with this large? I really wouldn't think so, which makes it seem like our clear commitment decision is when facing the flop 3bet.

A lot changes when he makes his 3b so big on the flop then his turn bet so small. Basically it means that he's shifted from "trying to build a huge pot mode" to "now I have a huge pot and just want to sucker the guy in mode". If the turn bet was bigger it would be more congruent with a line of thought like "oh the bigger the bet I make the scarier it will look" meaning if his 3b on flop was a bluff it's more likely he'd continue bluffing a larger amount on the turn which is why I don't feel wonderful about getting the money in, but for metagame purposes feel compelled to.

who does metagame matter vs a donk that I have played all of 20 hands with?

I'd just call down and be pretty happy about it.

Originally Posted by Renton

who does metagame matter vs a donk that I have played all of 20 hands with?

He'll think he can push you out of pots more often in the future and you'll be forced to fold in many more marginal situations because you folded here.

Originally Posted by Marshall28

Originally Posted by Renton

who does metagame matter vs a donk that I have played all of 20 hands with?

He'll think he can push you out of pots more often in the future and you'll be forced to fold in many more marginal situations because you folded here.

Huh? If you fold here and it makes him think he can push you out of pots in marginal situations then why would you have to fold in many more marginal situations? If he thinks he can push you out of pots then it would mean you shouldn't fold in marginal situations right?

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

I'd just call down and be pretty happy about it.

This 100%

Originally Posted by Parasurama

Originally Posted by Marshall28

Originally Posted by Renton

who does metagame matter vs a donk that I have played all of 20 hands with?

He'll think he can push you out of pots more often in the future and you'll be forced to fold in many more marginal situations because you folded here.

Huh? If you fold here and it makes him think he can push you out of pots in marginal situations then why would you have to fold in many more marginal situations? If he thinks he can push you out of pots then it would mean you shouldn't fold in marginal situations right?

so he thinks you're a nit and just starts c/ring you 50% on the flop and 3bing you an insane amount
you're going to have to fold more because he's bluffing you more
and a lot of the time if you don't fold you'll end up in a more marginal situation on the next street

anyway, people playing back at you is not something you want
you want them to think you're a fish and that you never fold (and you preferably want that image while still playing tight)

Originally Posted by Parasurama

Originally Posted by Marshall28

Originally Posted by Renton

who does metagame matter vs a donk that I have played all of 20 hands with?

He'll think he can push you out of pots more often in the future and you'll be forced to fold in many more marginal situations because you folded here.

Huh? If you fold here and it makes him think he can push you out of pots in marginal situations then why would you have to fold in many more marginal situations? If he thinks he can push you out of pots then it would mean you shouldn't fold in marginal situations right?

Kinda like, say you gave up here w/ Q9, and a similar spot comes up again and you have a weaker hand relative to the situation, the trip 9s wasn't good enough before, how is your relatively weaker hand good enough now? You'll have to draw the line at some point, and on stars you can't reload to 200bb. I'd rather not let him abuse me and be forced back down towards 100bb. I know when I let them do that they demolish me.

according to pokerstove its marginally a fold if he has exactly all combos J9 and better

i agree with calling down. it makes logical sense. i however folded because the 4-5 times ive been in this exact spot in my career they always had A9+.

Yah not to be redundant, but given stacks I definitely call down there.

does it in any way make much of a difference that we're calling 94 in a 350 pot and if the river comes a 6,3, 9 or Q we dont even have to think anymore and get the rest in?

This deep does anybody find a fold on the flop given the fact we are often drawing to 3 outs? His raise is rather large so unless it's a total airball I think 66 and A9 are a large part of his range, but I guess 9 10 and J9 also.

From experience vs these donks that turn bet screams "I have the nuts call so I can shove river"

meh

(obv I never fold the flop but in theory hmmm)

Originally Posted by iopq

so he thinks you're a nit and just starts c/ring you 50% on the flop and 3bing you an insane amount
you're going to have to fold more because he's bluffing you more
and a lot of the time if you don't fold you'll end up in a more marginal situation on the next street

If a donk starts C/R 50% on the flop and 3betting a ton, just polarize your range and let him hang himself

Originally Posted by Luke999

Originally Posted by iopq

so he thinks you're a nit and just starts c/ring you 50% on the flop and 3bing you an insane amount
you're going to have to fold more because he's bluffing you more
and a lot of the time if you don't fold you'll end up in a more marginal situation on the next street

If a donk starts C/R 50% on the flop and 3betting a ton, just polarize your range and let him hang himself

This makes zero sense.

Originally Posted by Marshall28

Originally Posted by Luke999

Originally Posted by iopq

so he thinks you're a nit and just starts c/ring you 50% on the flop and 3bing you an insane amount
you're going to have to fold more because he's bluffing you more
and a lot of the time if you don't fold you'll end up in a more marginal situation on the next street

If a donk starts C/R 50% on the flop and 3betting a ton, just polarize your range and let him hang himself

This makes zero sense.

Yeah I wrote that wrong
/Ignore it lol

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

I'd just call down and be pretty happy about it.

Indeed.

when we say we're calling down and generally happy about it how much does this have to do with it "on turn we're calling 94 in a 350 pot and if the river comes a 6,3, 9 or Q we dont even have to think anymore and get the rest in?"

im sure it matters some, but not much

so the river card is basically irrelevant, we're just happy how our hand stacks up against what opp could have, its just that some cards make our river decision super easy