10/25 NL wacky KK hand

Hand #8113267-8016 at Pessac (No Limit Hold'em)
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Started at 07/Sep/05 20:00:09

Dirty-Em is at seat 0 with $2599.
Lemonwheel is at seat 1 with $4354.
ulikeaces is at seat 2 with $2893.
chun li is at seat 3 with $3355.50.
Rock Biter is at seat 4 with $2628.
llj12345 is at seat 5 with $1254.
bb122554 is at seat 6 with $990.
Philo Beddoe is at seat 7 with $2599.
Wild Duck is at seat 8 with $2579.
dadgumit is at seat 9 with $655.
The button is at seat 2.

chun li posts the small blind of $10.
Rock Biter posts the big blind of $25.

Dirty-Em: -- --
Lemonwheel: -- --
ulikeaces: Ks Kc
chun li: -- --
Rock Biter: -- --
llj12345: -- --
bb122554: -- --
Philo Beddoe: -- --
Wild Duck: -- --
dadgumit: -- --

Pre-flop:

llj12345 folds. bb122554 raises to $85. Philo
Beddoe calls. Wild Duck folds. dadgumit folds.
Dirty-Em folds. Lemonwheel calls. ulikeaces
re-raises to $250. chun li folds. Rock Biter folds.
bb122554 calls. Philo Beddoe calls. Lemonwheel
calls.

Flop (board: 9d 3s 7s):

bb122554 checks. Philo Beddoe goes all-in for $2349.
Lemonwheel folds. ulikeaces???

Unless he flopped a set and can put you for sure on KK/AA and has a read that says you'll pay him off....I think you're ahead here. Maybe AQ of spades? I don't play ridiculous uber limits but this play is pretty unorthodox. No way its two pair, it's probably not AA. Any set is probably looking to extract money not chase you out...*boggle* I call if its 25NL, i crap my pants and call if its 10000000NL.

your image? his playing style?

I would fold here. He has to give you credit for a big pocket pair with your reraise preflop. I think he has a set, possibly AA.

It may be your or my entire bankroll, but it is only a buy-in for him...

I would also think that someone with a set would try to extract as much money as possible, unless he thinks such an unorthodox play would entice a call. With your large re-raise pre-flop there are only a few hands I would put you on with AA or KK easily being the most likely. If he has a set there would no reason for him to be concerned about you having a potential 4-flush. The two others could be a concern, but he could have bet a lot less and still had it been enough to give improper odds.

If he has AA I can possibly understand a smooth call against one opponent, but I would think that after subsequent pre-flop action he would push when the action got back to him. At that point the pot was large enough that I think AA would just try to take it down then.

You didn't give any information about table dynamics or reads, but I could understand an EP call from him with a hand like AQs or possibly AJs. With enough money in the pot already the call of the re-raise would be fairly standard. With a hand like AQs a flop like that is hard to play from EP. Given the pre-flop action you can pretty much guarantee a raise from someone behind you and it's likely to be large enough that you won't be getting proper odds to call. You can either check-and-fold or push. If he has AXs I actually like the push. The pot is already 40BB and it would be nice to take it down right then. There is a good chance that going AI might get a hand like JJ or QQ to fold. A tight player with KK or AA might fold as well. Hell most people with AA or KK are really going to think before making this call, as this post is evidence of. Even if he does get a call he has plenty of outs to make his flush. If he does put you on a large PP, KK is more likely than AA since he has an A in his hand. This would give him an additional 3 outs. Even with a spade in your hand(which he doesn't know) he has 11 clean outs to beat you and with 2 cards to come he is only ~ 3:2 dog. With $1,000 already in the pot, if you call him he is risking $2,349 to win $3,372. He is basically even money in this situation. If you factor in the reasonable chance of you folding to his bet, he is probably actually +EV making this move.

Then again he could have been trying to get creative with a hand like 7,9 when called the first raise and then called the re-raise because he was then getting over 5:1. He then flops top two which is vulnerable to a possible flush or even an overpair so he is content to take down an already nice pot.

gees this is such a tough hand.... Keep the ideas coming...

there are so many better ways to play a hand that beats you. it doesn't make sense that you are behind.

I think for you to call here he either has to be very aggressive, or be sick of your laggyness. Have you been re-raising preflop like that alot? Draw heavy board, so it could easily be a semibluff, but i just don't know, these overbets are weird.

I think you're beat (99 or 77) or a slight favorite with something like AK-Ajs.

I like overbetting the pot like this with a lock hand, it looks like I don't want a call... OR is it he wants you to think he has a lock hand, but he really doesn't? ... What level is he thinking on?

He doesn't want you to get on his level

You have to wonder what kind of a reaction he expects from you when he makes this bet. He can't imagine that you'd actually call this.

As9s

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

As9s

yea, or maybe 98s or T9s. i like the idea of a suited 9 doing this.

A set or rockets. Too many people in the pot, including the pre-flop raiser after him, so it's someone with a good made hand but not an unbeatable one, especially with a flush draw on the table. I'd fold, but then I can't even imagine playing at these levels, so best ignore me.

this hand is practically impossible to figure out anything on. You don't have any information on what he has. I personally am thinking he maybe has an oesfd, a9, or some overpair. I think i am folding this hand without a read.

this is the most messed up hand in the history of the world

need more information aces. How where you playing. How was he playing? Is he just a rich fish? Honestly, I don't think you can call even though you may be ahead.

Without knowing anything more I'm going to say it is most likely he has 56s or t8s/86s. He knows he's just a slight favorite so if he does get called he has many outs.

This hand is a mess...I think you're ahead. I don't think top pair does this here...definitely a draw. QQ or JJ might do it as well...don't think he has AA. Strange hand, mang.

Originally Posted by ilikeaces86

this is the most messed up hand in the history of the world

saying that makes me think he has 7 3

Call, spike a king and laugh about how easy poker is.

It's hands like this that make me hate NL.

-'rilla

I agree, call and spike a king

Im leaning towards a fold, because bb1122554 could also have hit a set and is slowplaying. Even if you are ahead I doubt it is by much as he likely has a pair + flush draw, or possibly T8s for the OESFD. He could definetly make this play with a set if he read you for AA or KK, but even so wouldnt a medium raise be more likely to get a reraise all-in?

Im very interested to see how this one turned out.

Hero folds like an oragami rose. (aces HATES paying someone off when he has the overpair)

-'rilla

Oh yeah unless he had some read i don't know about (speaking of that, reads are just as important as the hand history itself) aces "folded like a cheap suit".

The more i think about this hand, the more it looks to me like the only hand you can beat is AKs against a thinking player. Against a donkey this is a completely different situation. But since this is 2.5k nl i'm going to assume he is a thinking player.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

It's hands like this that make me hate NL.

Insta-call.

come on man i cant take the suspense - post the result please

I folded: that is all

nothing wrong with that. That's such a huge call, even if he didn't flop a set and hit something like 89s with the draw, he had a decent shot at out drawing you

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

It's hands like this that make me hate NL.

Insta-call.

I'd probably have called. But not instantly. I savoir the pain, anguish and torment of not knowing.

-'rilla

Bump

u caught me with it too

I don't see any hand you're way behind doing this.

Just read responces. A combo draw is very possible

Medium stakes advice (fwiw): raise more preflop, call flop. It's a combodraw a lot, very small % set. Why would a set bet if he/she is pretty confident you're going to bet?

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

Medium stakes advice (fwiw): raise more preflop, call flop. It's a combodraw a lot, very small % set. Why would a set bet if he/she is pretty confident you're going to bet?

medium takes here too.
I assume your reraise range here is tight?
If it is then i feel your flipping with a combo draw or your smoked, considering what your opponent puts you on. If both of you had a lot behind its probably an easier fold but with only just over a full buy in?
If your really tight, this would also be a great place to trap with AA as youre going to love a lot of flops.

Not sure without reads but I do see scared 2pairs play like this quite often.

were you playing against miffed?!

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

were you playing against miffed?!

i wishi had the br, in fact if i hadnt been cashing out all these months i might just have the br

This hand comes down to how you think the Villain is assessing his fold equity. Given the huge reraise preflop, what I think happened is the villain had KK beat, and played it badly thinking fold equity was moot.

If villain doesn't have KK beat in this spot, then he'll put that much money in the middle in a future pot where you have the best of it anyway.

Nice fold

Originally Posted by ilikeaces86

this is the most messed up hand in the history of the world

youll often see this play by someone relieved to have his medium pocket pair survive the flop, ie TT or JJ. looks like hes still on two outs to me. and if youre really beat, you can always say that you were going for the second nut BD flush draw all along...

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

It may be your or my entire bankroll, but it is only a buy-in for him...

I would also think that someone with a set would try to extract as much money as possible, unless he thinks such an unorthodox play would entice a call. With your large re-raise pre-flop there are only a few hands I would put you on with AA or KK easily being the most likely. If he has a set there would no reason for him to be concerned about you having a potential 4-flush. The two others could be a concern, but he could have bet a lot less and still had it been enough to give improper odds.

If he has AA I can possibly understand a smooth call against one opponent, but I would think that after subsequent pre-flop action he would push when the action got back to him. At that point the pot was large enough that I think AA would just try to take it down then.

You didn't give any information about table dynamics or reads, but I could understand an EP call from him with a hand like AQs or possibly AJs. With enough money in the pot already the call of the re-raise would be fairly standard. With a hand like AQs a flop like that is hard to play from EP. Given the pre-flop action you can pretty much guarantee a raise from someone behind you and it's likely to be large enough that you won't be getting proper odds to call. You can either check-and-fold or push. If he has AXs I actually like the push. The pot is already 40BB and it would be nice to take it down right then. There is a good chance that going AI might get a hand like JJ or QQ to fold. A tight player with KK or AA might fold as well. Hell most people with AA or KK are really going to think before making this call, as this post is evidence of. Even if he does get a call he has plenty of outs to make his flush. If he does put you on a large PP, KK is more likely than AA since he has an A in his hand. This would give him an additional 3 outs. Even with a spade in your hand(which he doesn't know) he has 11 clean outs to beat you and with 2 cards to come he is only ~ 3:2 dog. With $1,000 already in the pot, if you call him he is risking $2,349 to win $3,372. He is basically even money in this situation. If you factor in the reasonable chance of you folding to his bet, he is probably actually +EV making this move.

Then again he could have been trying to get creative with a hand like 7,9 when called the first raise and then called the re-raise because he was then getting over 5:1. He then flops top two which is vulnerable to a possible flush or even an overpair so he is content to take down an already nice pot.

bwahahaha.... when did i ever write this much in a post?

you used to pull that shit alot, glad you stopped

In a vacuum, As9s is the only hand it would make sense to play this way.

Calllllllllllllll

Originally Posted by ilikeaces86

I folded: that is all

no wonder he went back to school :P