100NL Razor thin lines

So I was wondering what you guys thought about these value bets and if they are too thin. I'm starting to get used to vbetting like this but I don't know what is spew and what isn't yet.

Hand 1 - Villain is a donkey. Running like 50/27/1 or some crap.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($117.30)
UTG ($117.50)
Hero ($98.50)
CO ($161.60)
Button ($113.75)
SB ($73.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, J.
1 fold, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($9) 2, T, 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $7, SB calls $7.

Turn: ($23) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14, SB calls $14 (48 left).

River: ($51) K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $49
Final Pot: $147.70



Hand 2 - villain is a loose-passive @ 54/7/1.3. What kicker do you think is the lowest I can have to make this river bet?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($109.30)
UTG ($106.20)
MP ($62.15)
Hero ($98.50)
Button ($168.80)
SB ($117.55)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T, A.
2 folds, Hero raises to $3, Button calls $3, 2 folds.

Flop: ($7.50) A, 7, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, Button calls $5.

Turn: ($17.50) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $11, Button calls $11.

River: ($39.50) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $26

Hand 1 is fine, except your turn & river bet sizes are terrible. Are you value betting or bluffing the king there?

Hand 2 you lose to lots more aces then you beat, so if thats what you think he has your in trouble, he can also have other better hands. So its really just a question of how much of a calling station he is with his other junk.

Originally Posted by reprisal

Hand 1 is fine, except your turn & river bet sizes are terrible. Are you value betting or bluffing the king there?

He's representing a bluff. It's very good.

Both are v good and standard

The 2nd one is fine b/c he prolly has some bullshit 88+ pair some % of the time in addition to the other ace-lower kickers that u beat

Originally Posted by mcatdog

Originally Posted by reprisal

Hand 1 is fine, except your turn & river bet sizes are terrible. Are you value betting or bluffing the king there?

He's representing a bluff. It's very good.

I try this a lot as well (50NL), but I never seem to get called (which makes it a good bluffing spot yes)....what are your experiences?
I'm starting to believe because of that at my stakes betting like half pot or less is more +EV.

Originally Posted by minSim

Originally Posted by mcatdog

Originally Posted by reprisal

Hand 1 is fine, except your turn & river bet sizes are terrible. Are you value betting or bluffing the king there?

He's representing a bluff. It's very good.

I try this a lot as well (50NL), but I never seem to get called (which makes it a good bluffing spot yes)....what are your experiences?
I'm starting to believe because of that at my stakes betting like half pot or less is more +EV.

Hero should of bet bigger on turn in hand 1, which would setup a river betsize of about 2/3 pot.

lol the thing is freechus is trying to value bet hand 1,not bluff, which makes it bad, i agree that you could improve on your bet sizing, specifically the river as your bet sizing on previous streets seems okish to me though i think closer to pot on the turn is optimal. on the river id bet something like 30 and hope he makes a crying call with the lage part of his range that we beat.

hand 2 is ok, id again bet more on turn, which leads to a more natural value bet on river, i think your only really worried about aj and occasionally aq though i think weird raggy 2 pairs that he turned are also possible due to his passiveness. overall id probs lean more towards a smaller bet on the river, something like 14-16 just because im really not sure if were good here without seeing previous showdowns of villain.

Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101

lol the thing is freechus is trying to value bet hand 1,not bluff, which makes it bad, i agree that you could improve on your bet sizing, specifically the river as your bet sizing on previous streets seems okish to me though i think closer to pot on the turn is optimal. on the river id bet something like 30 and hope he makes a crying call with the lage part of his range that we beat.

That's the point. I'm repping a bluff, so I'll get looked up by T's, 8s, etc. My hand is a bluff catcher catcher.

meh, i feel ya, i suppose one of the main components of a donkeys brain is 'zomg, overbet on a scare card, he must be bluffing' but i still feel that a simple 2/3rds river v bet is better as i doubt he calls with worse to a river overbet.

Ya thats sorta what I was getting at. Guess it depends on the donkey. Either way bet more on the turn.