2/4 - deep tables with JJ

-dynamic at the table is that I was playing very crazy. Probably running like 32/25 with a 3bet of 16
-I had 6bet small with ATo in a blind battle 15 mins ago vs a different opponent and had the odds to call off his shove. His KK held but the two villains in this hand saw I got it in with ATo (note to self: no more deep tables for me)
-CO in this hand was battling vs me a lot. he had 3bet my btn opens several times, I folded most and called one with 97hh and won at SD. He also 4bet my 3bet a few times and I folded.
-BTN in this hand 3bets high on the button, and I had 3bet him a lot so far and he's called once and folded the flop



$2/$4 Ante $0.80 No Limit Holdem
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($399.20)
CO ($1,111.25)
BTN ($1,073.60)
Hero (SB) ($1,036.80)
BB ($2,569)

Pre-Flop: ($10.00, 5 players) Hero is SB
1 fold, CO raises to $12, BTN raises to $36, Hero raises to $85, 1 fold, CO calls $73, BTN calls $49

Flop: ($263, 3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($263, 3 players)
Hero bets $155, CO calls $155, BTN calls $155

River: ($728, 3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $355, BTN folds, Hero

Seems good on all accounts. It's hard to put ppl on a hand here that they're value betting the river with which makes it kind of suspicious, but it's a 3-way RR pot and while the action is weird I think we run into odds hands like 89hh, 333 as well as KK. I'd probably make it a bit bigger pre.

I like a flop bet more than your line. On the river it sure looks like you are beat. He could have something as weak as KQ and bet it for value. Hate sizing pre.

I'd 4bet larger preflop and I'd c/f every street.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

I'd 4bet larger preflop and I'd c/f every street.

Yah I agree with everyone saying 4bet larger pre. I'm clearly not used to playing deep tables.

I was planning on c/f the flop, but do you really c/f that easily on the turn after flop checks through? Qx being checked through the flop is likely enough to c/f turn?

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

I'd 4bet larger preflop and I'd c/f every street.

+1

4bet size pre seems like a pretty large mistake, but I'm no expert on deep play.

Originally Posted by griffey24

-I had 6bet small with ATo in a blind battle 15 mins ago vs a different opponent and had the odds to call off his shove.

wat??

Originally Posted by nutsinho

wat??

haha I was waiting for someone to comment on that. The dynamic was pretty crazy between everyone at the table. I guess this raises another question: assuming I 6bet over someone's 5bet and will have better than 2:1 on a shove (if he shoves), am I better off just shoving myself?

(note: this is the first time I've ever 6 bet someone... I never play deep tables and have no clue if aggro players 5bet bluff small ever. The dynamic was such that, if he was going to 5bet bluff.. that was the time)

My personal opinion on 4betting+ is you want to do it with a wide range when your stack sizes require someone to have to put in a lot of money to rebluff you with the x+1bet, at least in holdem.

i.e. you and opp has a 600 stack. You raise otb to 12, opp 3bets from the BB 44. Here you could 4bet a wide range because any small 5 bet would commit your opponent making it very unprofitable to 5bet as a bluff unless he thought you really were bluffing a shit ton. So if im in opps position im basically never 5betting.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

My personal opinion on 4betting+ is you want to do it with a wide range when your stack sizes require someone to have to put in a lot of money to rebluff you with the x+1bet, at least in holdem.

i.e. you and opp has a 600 stack. You raise otb to 12, opp 3bets from the BB 44. Here you could 4bet a wide range because any small 5 bet would commit your opponent making it very unprofitable to 5bet as a bluff unless he thought you really were bluffing a shit ton. So if im in opps position im basically never 5betting.

Ok but given the stacks are, as they are in this hand. Which is similar to how they were when he 5bet/I 6bet.

He 3bet to 36 in BB (bvb) I made it 85 in SB 4bet, and he 5bet to like 155 on the BB with effective stacks like >1k. This seems like a good spot to 5bet bluff to me, and even moreso because he has position. Maybe I'm giving people too much credit for being bluff happy preflop this deep, as opposed to them being more likely to call IP to raises/4bets.

I would definitely open-limp ATo, it seems better than all the other options this deep against the described player. Danny's advice seems pretty good for the JJ hand.