5/10 - flopped flush

Villain is regular that I've logged some hands with, but not in awhile b/c I haven't been playing this high. Stats are 24/20/6 over 150 hands. I believe he's a frequent 3bettor in and out of position.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Holdem Ring game - Blinds: $5/$10 - 6 players - Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $1010.75
UTG+1: $1015
CO: $1000
Hero: $1319.90
SB: $1005
BB: $1314.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 9 7
3 folds, Hero raises to $35, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 5 4 A ($75, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $65, BB calls.

Turn: K ($205, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero...

checks behind and waits to see how villain acts on the river.

You want to bluff here?

Originally Posted by pocketfours

You want to bluff here?

of course not. no value here?

bet the turn and check the river. he will never bluff raise you and will call one more with worse hands because it is a good double barrel card- but when you check turn and bet river when checked to it should be a simple read that you were exercising pot control on the turn and are almost never bluffing now.

Originally Posted by nutsinho

bet the turn and check the river. he will never bluff raise you and will call one more with worse hands because it is a good double barrel card- but when you check turn and bet river when checked to it should be a simple read that you were exercising pot control on the turn and are almost never bluffing now.

Ok I agree with this, in the sense of getting value from our bets now rather than later.

But I also think we'd check through a wide range of hands with no spades here as well, and he might try to bluff lead river and we can pick those off if we check.

He sounds pretty aggressive from OP, so I'd probably check and call most river bets.

Originally Posted by griffey24

Originally Posted by nutsinho

bet the turn and check the river. he will never bluff raise you and will call one more with worse hands because it is a good double barrel card- but when you check turn and bet river when checked to it should be a simple read that you were exercising pot control on the turn and are almost never bluffing now.

Ok I agree with this, in the sense of getting value from our bets now rather than later.

But I also think we'd check through a wide range of hands with no spades here as well, and he might try to bluff lead river and we can pick those off if we check.

He sounds pretty aggressive from OP, so I'd probably check and call most river bets.

yeah i guess some people would bluff in v's spot. just in my experience a lot of opps don't go for it, since they will somehow have showdown value here and don't feel like turning their hand into a really marginal bluff. Also, their bet size can put you in a pretty gay spot if youre not sure of their range whereas if you are putting the bet in you have it under control.

Ok, I took griffey's line...

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 9 7
3 folds, Hero raises to $35, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 5 4 A ($75, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $65, BB calls.

Turn: K ($205, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: K ($205, 2 players)
BB bets $190, Hero...

looks like he's trying to rep a boat yet doesn't have one

I would check the turn and call the river but how sick would be a mini raise on the river? I am just throwing this idea around as I am sometimes experimenting with non-standard lines against regulars who know who I am.

You can very credibly represent a boat here. You check behind all sets and AK here and he never has those hands. I think shove>fold>call. Then again I agree that betting the turn and checking behind the river is best.

Originally Posted by Deanglow

You can very credibly represent a boat here. You check behind all sets and AK here and he never has those hands. I think shove>fold>call. Then again I agree that betting the turn and checking behind the river is best.

I don't think villain has a set/two pair enough on the turn to warrant betting to get value from them. You're certainly not betting to bluff your opponent off a possible spade?

That said I doubt he ever bets pot here with the Ts and maybe even not the Js. Your Opponents range here is likely Pair+draw on flop, as he will fast play all his big hands especially blind vs blind.

I usually check/behind this flop and then debate on calling a river. I think his bet size is a bit fishy and I doubt he does it with the nuts. I think calling>fold>shove.

Whats the best hand we turn into a bluff on the turn?

I think what to do on the turn is strongly related to how light people think villain will call. It seems that the people saying bet turn think villain will call us pretty light in this spot.

I don't really think villain is calling us that light here, OOP, on a four spade board. If villain was IN position, I would agree for sure that he could be calling us light but I can't see how he'd c/c and just hope to check down river again in this spot.

I'm calling this river as played. If we're not prepared to call this river, I think I'd rather take nutsinho's line of betting turn.

I'd call > shove > fold

Interesting comments. I really don't like a shove because it's folding out so few better hands... Qsx/Jsx/Tsx... and how many of these combinations are cold-calling from the bb and then c/c'ing this flop?

I had a hard time putting him on a hand, so I called. Results:

Villain had 55.

guess your betting turn idea was best.

wow wtf at him not c/r the flop.

Originally Posted by zook

Interesting comments. I really don't like a shove because it's folding out so few better hands... Qsx/Jsx/Tsx... and how many of these combinations are cold-calling from the bb and then c/c'ing this flop?

I had a hard time putting him on a hand, so I called. Results:

Villain had 55.

lol at a player with a 6 AF not raising this flop or something. Hmm weird, I definitely think top pair hands make up much more of his range than sets after this flop action. There are also a lot of combo draw hands, insiders+pairs, etc that can c/c this flop an will bluff this river.

theres a ton of spots in poker where u can credibly rep a lot of strong hands by shoveling a lot of money in, but ur opponents will prob begin to realize ur shoveling with a higher frequency than ur card distributions would indicate u have shovelable hands and start calling u with GT type logic when they are near the top of their range