5/10 at Tstone- Tough River Decision

Ok background- I have been playing for about 2 hours. Table is a mix of semi-nitty typical live players and a few taggy online MSNL players. I have been pretty active, raising limpers in position and I have gotten my stack in once on a semibluff which wasn't called. I was also caught double barreling a couple hands ago.

Villain in hand is probably the loosest at the table, and a few hands ago he got stacked in a 3bet pot where some older donk called a 3bet with Q9 and turned the nut straight against this guy's small straight. He doesn't seem to be visibly tilting, but most people play slightly different after busting. Villain seems slightly loose passive/tricky, as in the 3bet pot he checked his made straight on two streets where I was the original 3bettor and I didn't Cbet. On river he led out and was raised all in by the old guy. He has also limped a ton preflop.

Ok. Villain limps in early MP I complete in the sb with 55 BB checks.

Flop Kh 7h 5h pot 30. I lead for 25 villain calls.

Turn 7c. I bet 35- villain calls

River 8d I bet 160, villain thinks for a few seconds and raises to btw 400-450 ( I dont remember exact amnt- don't think it really matters either, basically a small raise)


I'll post my reasons for the line I took in a bit.

Comments on all streets appreciated. Thanks. Sauce.

Is he any good?
I mean im guessing he is, or you wouldn't even be considering this. I personally bet more on the turn, anything thats calling 35 is prob calling 45 or 55. 35 is barely half pot.

I think the riv is annoyingly a fold. I understand that literally the only hand I can think of this guy having is 8h8. But also the fact that it's really hard to put this guy on a hand at all. But unless the guy sucks idk what hand he's playing this way bedsides a higher boat. You have the lowest one out there.

why couldnt villain have 78 here?

um this is at least a call. The decision should be whether to raise or not.

How can this ever be a fold at live poker. You have to first consider this guy does not have you on a hand whatsoever. He has no idea how strong you are. I think I'd have to atleast call.

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

why couldnt villain have 78 here?

meh, 78 would be just as weird as K7 and 75. I mean unless the guy is like uber nit he's probably raising the turn where he hits his trips.

Originally Posted by Renton

um this is at least a call. The decision should be whether to raise or not.

But a good opponent is never raising here without a boat right? This isn't like the horrid 1/2 game, this is like a decent 5/10 game.

Villain has 64 or a flopped straight often enough (more often than 88, 78, 75, KK, or K7, IMO) to call this, though I'd really want to push...

He's obviously willing to get money in with less than the nuts, so there's no way you can fold getting around 2:1 on a call, IMO.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

why couldnt villain have 78 here?

meh, 78 would be just as weird as K7 and 75. I mean unless the guy is like uber nit he's probably raising the turn where he hits his trips.

I think you might have missed the fact that Villain possibly flopped a flush and decided to play it tricky (see flopped straight that checked two streets). He probably didn't even notice the board pairing on the turn (" ZOMG I HAVE A FLUSH!")

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Originally Posted by Renton

um this is at least a call. The decision should be whether to raise or not.

But a good opponent is never raising here without a boat right? This isn't like the horrid 1/2 game, this is like a decent 5/10 game.

but he's not good, op mentioned he was loose and passive.

Also, 5/10 live is softer generally than 1/2 on pokerstar i'd wager.

I don't think your line is bad if you were looking to get raised on the turn.

As played I'd just snap call. If the guy's decent there's not much value in raising.

Also, your line may look like busted hearts to him.

With 2 to 1 yes I think you have to call but I think the posters are giving opp too little credit. Even a lot of bad players aren't raising here with a flush.

i call this and dont give too much weight to other options in my considerations.

I agree whole heartedly with Renton. Your decision is to raise or call. Mostly it's a call.

Yeah, I don't think we can raise the worst full-house here given the way this played out.

Probably a call, although with enough information this might be foldable.

I'd call here most of the time I think. Stack sizes would help.

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Originally Posted by Renton

um this is at least a call. The decision should be whether to raise or not.

But a good opponent is never raising here without a boat right? This isn't like the horrid 1/2 game, this is like a decent 5/10 game.

but he's not good, op mentioned he was loose and passive.

Also, 5/10 live is softer generally than 1/2 on pokerstar i'd wager.

I think you vastly overestimate your typical 5/10 live player.

underestimate do you mean? or are u speaking to isf?

yeah hes talking about me.

Inst-Call

Yea I called he showed 88- just that my gut was like FOLD FOLD FOLD FOLD, SCREW POT ODDS MUCK!!!!!

but I dont think I can or should prolly, might be kinda exploitable to muck bottom boat to small raises on river.... lol.

Anyways- I was looking to get raised on turn, trying to make a fake blocking bet as I had just been caught double barreling a couple hands ago and villain was one of the more aggro players at the table.

A passive live badish player is almost never bluffing here and he's not raising a straight for value. Don't we all remember how hard it was to make those raises and come around to the fact that the monster isn't under the bed?

First of all- this live 5/10 game wasn't full of tourists and drunk ppl and was muuuuuch harder than any 1/2 nl game I have ever played at Stars.

2nd- the villain in this hand was a 2p2er (maybe) I'm not sure but he was at least friends with the other two winning 3/6 nl players at the table to he wasn't completely out to lunch here.

That being said, I don't think he had played particularly well today and I definitely wasn't sad to be playing pots against him. Sauce.

It was live.. if your gut said fold so strongly, maybe you picked up something in his body language that betrayed his hand?