50NL - AA OOP

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($15.20)
UTG ($50)
MP ($89.05)
CO ($34.50)
Button ($92.10)
Hero ($83.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A.
1 fold, MP raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5, 1 fold, MP raises to $13.75, Hero calls $8.75.

Flop: ($28) 8, 9, 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $18, Hero calls $18.

Turn: ($64) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks.

River: ($64) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $30, MP folds.

Final Pot: $64

C/R flop maybe?
Is the river bet-sizing OK? I thought that he would call that with a small overpair for sure, getting 1:3 pot odds. I think he had something like AK or AQ, and if so I couldn't extract much value from these.

you're 3bet size pf is too small. if you make it bigger, then his 4bet is bigger and you can get it all in easier. furthermore I want this allin pf, because I don't think he's folding after 4betting. (maybe now he is, because it's only 13,75 but when you make it bigger, his 4 bet is bigger and he can't fold it)

Yeah I would usually 3-bet to 6$ but sometimes I vary my play a bit. I don't really like the 5-bet shove because its just too goddamn obvious. (With KK he is going broke anyways if an ace doesn't hit, with AK he can catch a piece of the flop and go broke while he might fold it PF, with QQ/JJ/TT he will probably lose a lot if it will be all unders while he would probably fold PF (except QQ), and there probably isn't anything else in his range if he is somewhat decent (maybe AQ but thats very unprobable because there are only two aces remaining in the deck and the 4-bet is quiet out of line)

sorry, missed both of you being deepstacked. But I think in that case you have to make an even bigger 3 bet if you want to vary and not a smaller(you're now giving him odds to call with any pp). I understand why you call the 4bet. At 50NL some players don't even have AK or QQ in their 4bet range, but since your both deep it might be the case here. the river betsize is fine (any lower and a reraise will have you wondering if it's a bluff). His range imo is really narrowed to JJ/AK and maybe TT

Yeah I see your point about three-betting so I will try not to three-bet too small in the future. I thought that a 45$ river-bet may be more +EV because if he has an overpair then it would be very though for him to lay down, because my play looks pretty much like a bluff (C/C flop, check turn, bet river) with something like AK/AQ or even mid-hi PPs.

I 3-bet to $7 here always. If you want to vary your play vary what you 3-bet with. Being OOP I 5-bet small here, I like to be the one finishing the betting preflop if I'm OOP. It's hard to get more than a c-bet out of him the way you played it unless he has QQ-KK which is likely paying you off anyway.

your line might look like you're bluffing AK, but you're amount says value. if you want to make it look like a bluff I think you should bet more (45 looks like value too), something like potsize/shove.

Just 5bet pre; pretty much no-one ever folds after 4betting.

Originally Posted by Ash256

Just 5bet pre; pretty much no-one ever folds after 4betting.

I think I am giving away my hand that way, if I 5bet then he can be 99% sure that I have AA/KK while if I just call then he might go broke with a lot of hands.

Originally Posted by BigPapi

your line might look like you're bluffing AK, but you're amount says value. if you want to make it look like a bluff I think you should bet more (45 looks like value too), something like potsize/shove.

I've just realized that I have something like 50$ left here so basically I'm betting 30$ or shoving.
30$*x>50$*y where x is the probability that he calls the 30$ bet and y is the probability that he calls the shove, if the equation is true than betting 30$ is better.
x>1.67y
so he has to call the 30$ bet more than 1.67 times he calls the shove to make it more profitable, which is quiet unrealistic, so shoving is probably better. So I agree

Originally Posted by szamvan

Originally Posted by Ash256

Just 5bet pre; pretty much no-one ever folds after 4betting.

I think I am giving away my hand that way, if I 5bet then he can be 99% sure that I have AA/KK while if I just call then he might go broke with a lot of hands.

He's not 4betting without at least QQ and sometimes AKs. He's probably not folding either. I will definitely say that the size of your 3bet and his 4bet makes it awkward and closer than I thought though - most 50NL 4bets end up around the $20 mark making folding impossible.

I think you should definitely CRAI flop as played.

I like the line, (except 3-bet size), just C/R the flop all in.

I tried to wait until the turn, when he might potfuck himself and cant fold to a CRAI.And if he doesnt hang himself then I may still get some value from overpairs on the river by vbetting because my line looks pretty weak then (C/C flop, check turn, bet river).

So why is the flop CRAI better than my line?

Originally Posted by szamvan

So why is the flop CRAI better than my line?

Because you'll start cacking yourself when a K or Q comes
Because you're not letting all the money go in when you have the best hand


He had AK there, but his range was AA, KK, QQ, AK. The money should've been all in at an early point in the hand.



To be completely honest I don't like any street there.


I'm not entirely sure I'm correct, but I think I'm 80% correct, I'd like to see your reasoning, learn about the game and that.

Yeah I would usually 3-bet to 6$ but sometimes I vary my play a bit.

WHY?!!! Your 3bet completely sucks. You want to get your opponent committed and if you make a real 3bet any 4bet he makes will make him more committed than if you don't.

I don't really like the 5-bet shove because its just too goddamn obvious.

Fold preflop then, he'll never think you had AA! It's very likely a cooler situation and so you should do the right thing and get the money in ASAP.

(With KK he is going broke anyways if an ace doesn't hit, with AK he can catch a piece of the flop and go broke while he might fold it PF, with QQ/JJ/TT he will probably lose a lot if it will be all unders while he would probably fold PF

The flop was all unders! Yet you still continued to slowplay!




What I'm getting at is that with your line you managed to get the most money you could out of the hand that was putting the least in the pot.




If your valuebet on the river gets called, then you know how you played the entire hand has been a mistake. DUCY?

Originally Posted by Ash256

Originally Posted by szamvan

So why is the flop CRAI better than my line?

Because you'll start cacking yourself when a K or Q comes
Because you're not letting all the money go in when you have the best hand


He had AK there, but his range was AA, KK, QQ, AK. The money should've been all in at an early point in the hand.

Yeah I see. Thx for the explanation.

Originally Posted by Ash256

To be completely honest I don't like any street there.


I'm not entirely sure I'm correct, but I think I'm 80% correct, I'd like to see your reasoning, learn about the game and that.

lol

Originally Posted by Ash256

Yeah I would usually 3-bet to 6$ but sometimes I vary my play a bit.

WHY?!!! Your 3bet completely sucks. You want to get your opponent committed and if you make a real 3bet any 4bet he makes will make him more committed than if you don't.

Originally Posted by szamvan

Yeah I see your point about three-betting so I will try not to three-bet too small in the future.

but thanks for reinforcing

Originally Posted by Ash256

I don't really like the 5-bet shove because its just too goddamn obvious.

Fold preflop then, he'll never think you had AA! It's very likely a cooler situation and so you should do the right thing and get the money in ASAP.

see reasoning below.

Originally Posted by Ash256

(With KK he is going broke anyways if an ace doesn't hit, with AK he can catch a piece of the flop and go broke while he might fold it PF, with QQ/JJ/TT he will probably lose a lot if it will be all unders while he would probably fold PF

The flop was all unders! Yet you still continued to slowplay!

yeah you have a point ))

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I understand the flop CRAI but still dont feel that the 5-bet shove PF is mandatory, maybe its just a matter of style :P