50nl - two hands against the same fish

First hand, the table had been really loose in general, and the main villain was running like 50/20 over like 30 hands but this was my first real history against him. I'm lost on every single street here. Sorry to show results, but it's relevant to the next hand.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (UTG) ($62.25)
MP ($2.70)
Button ($165.55)
SB ($167.75)
BB ($51.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with ,
Hero bets $2, MP calls $2, Button calls $2, SB calls $1.75, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($10) , , (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $5, MP calls $0.70 (All-In), Button calls $5, 2 folds

Turn: ($20.70) (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $12, Button calls $12

River: ($44.70) (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, Button bets $22, Hero folds

Total pot: $44.70 | Rake: $2

Results:
Button had 9, 8 (one pair, sixes).
MP had 9, 9 (two pair, nines and sixes).
Outcome: Button won $31.15, MP won $11.55


Second hand, same villain. My quesiton's about the river.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($57.50)
UTG ($6.80)
MP ($190.55)
CO ($50)
Button ($153.70)
SB ($51.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with ,
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, 2 folds, SB calls $0.25, Hero checks

Flop: ($2) , , (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.50, UTG calls $1.50, MP calls $1.50, 1 fold

Turn: ($6.50) (3 players)
Hero bets $4.80, 1 fold, MP calls $4.80

River: ($16.10) (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $6.50, Hero's turn to act.....

so if villain bet me off a fucking sidepot, on a broadway-laden board after i'd PFR'ed in MP and cbet into 5 people, surely there does not exist a spot where he's going to check back a missed draw. so i obv would auto barrel this river if villain weren't retarded, but i have no wishes of trying to push him off Jx.

so i figure he'll check back most of his made hands on this scare card 'cause that's what 50/20's do, right? so once he bets i'm thinking he has like {44,22,KJ,KdXd, and a whole bunch of missed draws}. so if that truly is his range, and if he's folding all of his missed draws to a raise of 18, then it's +EV. but if there are more J's in his NOT checking it back range, then it gets a lot closer. am i just being spewtarded?

EDITED: To convert the hand history

bump

1. wtf are you doing? {seems like there's a better way to suggest not posting results -meeloche}
2. if you check its to fold.

1) Iunno why ur c-betting 5way :S

2) Does he raise his sets/2pairs and stuff earlier on the flop/turn ? Do you think he's capable of b/fing weak Jx's. Think about stuff like this then pokerstove + some math.

1) Generally speaking I think it's going to be tough to play JTs UTG
2) you're not getting many hands to fold on the flop. I think checking is better.

You should consider playing around with HEM or Pokertracker, whichever you use, to see how well you've performed in hands where you are betting out into 3 or more people. That immediately stands out to me from looking at these two hands because I don't like either. I'd be interested to know what you found.

Hand 1 - Betting this flop is throwing money away. By checking, you maintain position on the sb and bb by seeing how they react to any bet from the button. If button is likely to bet his entire range here, and it folds back to you, calling is fine. If sb/bb call or raise, you get to fold without putting any more money in. Check/reevaluate turn.

I appreciate that you posted hand 1 to help define villain in hand 2, so:

Hand 2 - I'd be much more inclined to bet out with a bigger flush draw like A-hi or K-hi here. With 3d5d I definitely prefer c/calling this flop rather than betting out into so many people again. Once we barrel the turn, we need to fire a lot of rivers especially vs villain. The reason for this is villain has shown they are willing to chase draws and then bet if checked to, but you haven't given a read that villain will call down light with weak pairs. We also have no showdown value, all of villains draws are higher than ours which even blows for the times when he does check instead of bet.

However, as reDZill4 said, if you're checking this river it's to fold. You have the luxury of finding better spots vs this villain cuz he's going to be in plenty of pots.

1) I would never double barrel here, flop bet is questionable. What do you expect to call you thats worse?

2) you have 5 high, c/r wouldn't make much sense, just fold. Turn bet is marginal as well.

And as others have mentioned don't post results.

He's posting results in hand 1 to give us an idea how to play/what to in hand 2.

However, the result from hand 1 doesn't really help us, since we don't have any value with our hand. It's not like its a bluff catcher.

Hand 1 - in a moderately protected pot, I'd check the turn a reasonably amount of the time and re-eval.

Hand 2 - I'd barrel this river a reasonably high percentage of the time, unless we know he can't fold rivers either. Especially vs someone who might get to the river with a reasonably weak range. As played, I don't see what the question is, unless you wanna c/bomb?

i think betting the river in hand 2 would be best if we're going to try to win the pot.

I'd say c/r river to 25, but you have so many other issues going on that for me to even attempt to explain it, I'd have to explain a ton of other concepts that you clearly don't get. So probably don't c/r.

Stop playing your hands face up, hand 1 makes me cringe.

Originally Posted by Marshall28

I'd say c/r river to 25, but you have so many other issues going on that for me to even attempt to explain it, I'd have to explain a ton of other concepts that you clearly don't get. So probably don't c/r.

Stop playing your hands face up, hand 1 makes me cringe.

lol OP got pwnt.

wait a second...