AA deep, vs fish - 2/5 pounds

-SB is a huuuuge fish who has no fold button. I've had a few hands with him. One hand I bet AT on turn, and hit A river and c/r'd from 60 to 240 on river and he called with only JJ
-he doesn't distinguish bet sizing, so a huge bet and a smaller bet seem to get called with the same frequency
-UTG is a meh player. he's generally pretty tight, 18/8/4, but seems to be playing around 30% of hands today (maybe to play more hands with mega fish)
-UTG is an ass, and him and I were fighting in chat cause I was telling him to shutup and mind his own business while he was insulting the fish and calling him so bad and basically saying everything you shouldn't say to a fish. Not sure how that would influence someone's play against someone
-SB hasn't donked out much yet that I've seen, but pretty much always bets if you ever checked to him when he had position

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $1100
CO: $469
Hero: $1372.15
SB: $1249.35
BB: $857.50

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with
UTG calls, CO folds, Hero raises to $25, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: ($80, 3 players)
SB bets $70, UTG calls, Hero ?

I'm not qualified at all to comment but if this was at my stakes I would definantly raise the flop. There are a ton of scare cards that can come on the turn and the Donkey could be leading with a pair or a draw here. I doubt he has you beat due to the number of uuuuus you put in huge fish. UTG can call with a wide range here for implied odds. The fish is obviously a huge station based on his JJ call and UTG can expect to get a good amount of value if he hits.

I think if you raise and get 3 bet in this situation you need to fold. If SB calls I would fold a diamond if lead into and check behind a blank. If UTG calls in any situation I would proceed with caution.

I think you should definitely raise and try to win a big pot against the fish. You're almost guaranteed to have both players beat, (the fish could be betting any pair, and would probably slow-play better a lot of the time because fish like to do this, and the UTG player would likely raise the fish with any big hand because he knows he's getting action) so I would raise right here and try to play a big pot heads-up against the fish. I'd probably make it $300.

$300 g00t

Yup raise and cry if you get 3bet.

Alright, I raiiiiiiised it up. And to my surprise, the fish FOLDED but the other "more solid" player called which had me worried. The turn was also not the greatest card in the world.

Bet or check for pot control this deep?


Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5
5 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $1100
CO: $469
Hero: $1372.15
SB: $1249.35
BB: $857.50
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with
UTG calls, CO folds, Hero raises to $25, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.
Flop: ($80, 3 players)
SB bets $70, UTG calls, Hero raises to $240, SB folds, UTG calls.
Turn: ($630, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero ?

I really like a bet/fold on the turn, although my bet sizing needs work.

Probably around 420

Ya I think $400/fold. Even though we'd be getting sick odds vs. a shove I don't think he's the type to semi-bluff shove the turn.

The games where I play are simply too aggro to bet/fold this on such a drawy turn. I can't put in over half of eff stacks and then fold. I know a bet/fold has some merit, but I would still bet/call or just check behind for pot control, depending on reads.

b/f $400 doesn't seem very good because we only need 19% eq to call, and we should probably have very close to that against his range. Here AF4 villain just called twice, so something isn't right. I'd check behind and very likely call a bet on the river.

me too

Originally Posted by pocketfours

b/f $400 doesn't seem very good because we only need 19% eq to call, and we should probably have very close to that against his range. Here AF4 villain just called twice, so something isn't right. I'd check behind and very likely call a bet on the river.

I took P4's line here, though thinking about it in retrospect I kinda don't feel like villain would have bluff c/r'd me here on this turn with like JT or something, so I probably should have bet $400 and folded, despite the good pot odds I was getting.

As played ....

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5
5 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $1100
CO: $469
Hero: $1372.15
SB: $1249.35
BB: $857.50
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with
UTG calls, CO folds, Hero raises to $25, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.
Flop: ($80, 3 players)
SB bets $70, UTG calls, Hero raises to $240, SB folds, UTG calls.
Turn: ($630, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.
River: ($630, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero loves how the board keeps getting worse.. and....?

I'd check behind vs this guy.

haha overbet shove as a value-bluff is kinda cool

Originally Posted by Genitruc

haha overbet shove as a value-bluff is kinda cool

Yeah, and so is betting like $133 and calling a shove.

Originally Posted by Genitruc

haha overbet shove as a value-bluff is kinda cool

hmm as a bluff or for value?

Originally Posted by griffey24

Originally Posted by Genitruc

haha overbet shove as a value-bluff is kinda cool

hmm as a bluff or for value?

As a value-bluff you donk.

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Originally Posted by griffey24

Originally Posted by Genitruc

haha overbet shove as a value-bluff is kinda cool

hmm as a bluff or for value?

As a value-bluff you donk.

You people are crazy with your 250bb deep value bluffs!

I think I prefer a check, though getting only one street of value with aces kinda makes me feel like a donk anyhow!

Originally Posted by griffey24

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Originally Posted by griffey24

Originally Posted by Genitruc

haha overbet shove as a value-bluff is kinda cool

hmm as a bluff or for value?

As a value-bluff you donk.

You people are crazy with your 250bb deep value bluffs!

I think I prefer a check, though getting only one street of value with aces kinda makes me feel like a donk anyhow!

Getting two pot sized bets of value with one pair is good/std.