Adjusting your strategy (Interactive post)

I was playing a player HU recently that had a lot of leaks that were required understanding of relatively advanced (and a lot of basic) concepts to get exactly what he was doing wrong. Although this is a HU hand, the thinking required in this hand is no different than 6 max and full ring.

In this post I am going to describe two players, one is me and one is my opponent, and we are playing HU. Your job is two fold:

1. Figure out what opp is doing wrong and why.

2. Figure out how opp needs to adjust his strategy (assuming ISF's stays the same).

3. Figure out what i am doing wrong in maximally exploiting opps strategy.

4. Figure out how i need to adjust my strategy (assuming opps stays the same).


I expect any worthful post in this thread to be at least 4 paragraphs if not longer. Any questions can be short.

Here we go:

Preflop:

1. ISF: Opening 95% of hands on the BU to 4 times the BB, threebetting 15-20% of his hands (high frequency), and cold calling about 8% (avg). Calling threebets about 20% of the time.

2. Opp: Opening about 70% of hands on the BU to 4 times the BB. Threebetting about 5-8% of his hands, cold calling about 20%. Calls threebets about 60% of the time.

Threebet pots:

1. ISF: Cbetting around 85% of the time about 3/4ths pot, very small double barrel frequency, and very small c/r frequency. Passive on the river as well. In position when he calls a threebet he is raising a flop cbet a small frequency, and taking a lot of stabs at passiveness. Floating a lot (who knows if opp knows this). Not playing tricky.

2. Opp: Cbetting around 65% of the time, doesn't cbet a lot of midpair and bottom pair. Not playing too tricky. Not too aggressive with draws, and not bluffing much. Will two barrel with most made hands, sometimes will check turn and bet river with nut hands. Small frequency of turn bets are air on relatively random spots. In position when he calls a threebet isn't raising the flop at all. Takes a float line: will call the flop and either check turn and bet river, or bet turn. Not very bluffy when checked to. Often will check down mid to bottom pair type hands.

Raised pots:

1. ISF: OOP Mixes in a lot of leads and c/r (c/r about 20% of the time), not c/f very much. C/c range somewhat imbalanced, flop c/c often give up on turn. Generally bets draws and nut hands on turn after c/r. When opp checks behind the flop is super aggressive, often firing one or two barrels.
In Position: Responds to flop c/r by a lot of calling rather than threebetting. Generally straight forward on turn and river vs c/r, will float flop c/r on occasion and bet turn. Cbetting 75% of the time, checking behind ace highs and mid and bottom pair type hands, very rarely a nut hand. Huge double barrel frequency. Generally passive on the river.

2. Opp: OOP mostly c/c or c/r (only 4% of the time) with a relatively balanced range. C/f a lot. Balances made hand c/r with mostly air. Calls much of his draws, relatively balanced c/c range of nut hands, weak top pair, mid and bottom pair, and draws. Generally passive on the turn and river and will randomly follow through a c/r all the way with air, but rarely. Not a big station. Tends to play pretty straightforward versus check behinds, not bluffing too much, but throwing in a small amount of bluffs, mostly with draws or gutshots.

In Pos: Cbets around 80% of the time, mostly checking behind with pure air that has no chance of drawing out. Doesn't raise leads much, even with his nut hands, so balanced calling range to leads. Isn't betting a lot of turns and checking behind as weak as cbetted weak top pair on the turn, snapping and vbetting on river bets/checks. Responds to c/r with calling, not floating much here.


Alright im sure there are clarification questions and aspects of opp or ISF's game i didn't cover so feel free to ask questions, no matter how trivial. In your responses feel free to be as picky as you want.

I'll respond to every post.

cliffnotes?

Originally Posted by Trikflow77

cliffnotes?

lol

1) Preflop: Opp is not 3 betting enough, since ISF has a very wide range from button. He is calling way too many 3 bets, since he will never have the initiative and will have to make a tough decision post flop when facing ISF likely cbet.

Postflop : Opp is not cbetting enough when he does have the initiative which is letting ISF take the pot away from him on the turn/river. He is also not being aggressive enough with draws. Since he is not building the pot with draws when he does hit ISF can get away easy without being pot committed. Opp is also missing out on all the times where he bets his draw and ISF folds. He needs to bluff a certain% otherwise he will be very easy to read postflop. When he does bluff he should be doing it in a spot where he could actually have a hand (balancing his range). He isn’t c/r enough therefore loosing the building the pot aspect plus the extra bet he wins when ISF leads with air or marginal hand.


2) Pre Flop: 3 bet more probably around 25%+ until ISF calms down from the button and cold call less. Call 3 bets way less instead 4 betting with 1010+AQ+ and 4 bet folding 34s-67s 22-66. I would recommend that he open less from the button like 40-50% (since I'm assuming ISF is much better postflop)

Post Flop: Increase cb% to like 90 which means he’s cbetting any piece. He should also be raising an ISF cbet with top pair or better I would say + draws +air. He should be raising ISF leads frequently and increasing his 2 barrel frequency. Increase his c/r % and add draws + air to the hands he c/r’s with. If he is checked to he should be betting 100% of the time in 3 bet pots in position.

The next two are giving me more trouble, since I find I struggle with these types of players. I combined the next 2 answers since it seams I would be repeating myself.

Preflop: I think is fine although I’m not comfortable opening 95% from the button since this would at 40% more spews post flop for me. I like the excessive 3 betting especially since he’s making a mistake by calling too much pre and playing pretty straightforwardly post.

Postflop: Since this guy isn’t a station and passive post you should be double barreling more frequently. In raised pots I would bet 100% of the time that it’s checked to you. Hands with showdown value can be checked since he isn’t going to punish you. I have trouble adjusting to the floating line so I’ll let others discuss that part.

Yeah I’m kind of clueless when it comes to these types of players so I’m going to leave it there. I think there might be some bet sizing changes like making it 3 bb from the button but I never understood reasoning for that so I would like to hear arguments for 3bb or 4bb. There wasn’t any mention of 3 bet sizing so I don’t know if that’s relevant or not.

That’s a start anyway, alright tear it apart…

the title needs adjusting to "your"....

im too tired to try this right now, maybe tomorrow.

Originally Posted by EzDuzIt

im too tired to try this right now, maybe tomorrow.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Originally Posted by Trikflow77

cliffnotes?

lol

ty for finding humor in my shot at your long winded yet extremely insightful/useful/almost2deepforftr post. I see a very large br in your future sir.

Originally Posted by meeloche

1) Preflop: Opp is not 3 betting enough, since ISF has a very wide range from button. He is calling way too many 3 bets, since he will never have the initiative and will have to make a tough decision post flop when facing ISF likely cbet.

Postflop : Opp is not cbetting enough when he does have the initiative which is letting ISF take the pot away from him on the turn/river. He is also not being aggressive enough with draws. Since he is not building the pot with draws when he does hit ISF can get away easy without being pot committed. Opp is also missing out on all the times where he bets his draw and ISF folds. He needs to bluff a certain% otherwise he will be very easy to read postflop. When he does bluff he should be doing it in a spot where he could actually have a hand (balancing his range). He isn’t c/r enough therefore loosing the building the pot aspect plus the extra bet he wins when ISF leads with air or marginal hand.


2) Pre Flop: 3 bet more probably around 25%+ until ISF calms down from the button and cold call less. Call 3 bets way less instead 4 betting with 1010+AQ+ and 4 bet folding 34s-67s 22-66. I would recommend that he open less from the button like 40-50% (since I'm assuming ISF is much better postflop)

Post Flop: Increase cb% to like 90 which means he’s cbetting any piece. He should also be raising an ISF cbet with top pair or better I would say + draws +air. He should be raising ISF leads frequently and increasing his 2 barrel frequency. Increase his c/r % and add draws + air to the hands he c/r’s with. If he is checked to he should be betting 100% of the time in 3 bet pots in position.

The next two are giving me more trouble, since I find I struggle with these types of players. I combined the next 2 answers since it seams I would be repeating myself.

Preflop: I think is fine although I’m not comfortable opening 95% from the button since this would at 40% more spews post flop for me. I like the excessive 3 betting especially since he’s making a mistake by calling too much pre and playing pretty straightforwardly post.

Postflop: Since this guy isn’t a station and passive post you should be double barreling more frequently. In raised pots I would bet 100% of the time that it’s checked to you. Hands with showdown value can be checked since he isn’t going to punish you. I have trouble adjusting to the floating line so I’ll let others discuss that part.

Yeah I’m kind of clueless when it comes to these types of players so I’m going to leave it there. I think there might be some bet sizing changes like making it 3 bb from the button but I never understood reasoning for that so I would like to hear arguments for 3bb or 4bb. There wasn’t any mention of 3 bet sizing so I don’t know if that’s relevant or not.

That’s a start anyway, alright tear it apart…

Pretty solid response. Glad you caught the issue with preflop hopefully someone responds with an argument about it.

Ok ISF, may not be what you want do i just played HU (loving HU) against a guy there.

Opp played 75/7.

When im on SB and open preflop he ALWAYS called me so his range is huge plus he folded only 40% to a c/b.

Adjustments I made

1) I preflop raises 4bb OOP but it didnt cut down on his calling range so i reverted back to 3bb.

2) I started off potting flop as my c/b but switched it down to 3/4 pot snce he calls so much.

3) He calls alot of flop even with air so I had success 2 barreling him.#

4) he lead pot so much it was like he was supposed to c/b. he lead 1/2 or pot. this was my toughest adjustment since I was surprised he did it so much.

- obv raise was the standard play at the beginning but he then did it so often that i must decide which hands to raise and which to call or fold. If i raise EVERY time it sucks to chase him away each time, plus he had a tendency to call my raise with some odd holdings but he wasnt calling enough for me to extract the most EV. So I raise my monsters/air and holdings with some equity like a GS or over and I called with some monsters (depending on flop etc)/ A high+overs (this is actually good equity vs his range and has SD value)/ made pair etc.

- i also knew his bet sizing on later streets were weak and only rarely did he make pot bets which id presume is when he has awaken with something. This makes my decent SD hands worthwhile to just call down with ie A high and weak pairs.

ok cant think of much else right now but im sick of not interacting much in ISFs posts.

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

Ok ISF, may not be what you want do i just played HU (loving HU) against a guy there.

Opp played 75/7.

When im on SB and open preflop he ALWAYS called me so his range is huge plus he folded only 40% to a c/b.

Adjustments I made

1) I preflop raises 4bb OOP but it didnt cut down on his calling range so i reverted back to 3bb.

2) I started off potting flop as my c/b but switched it down to 3/4 pot snce he calls so much.

3) He calls alot of flop even with air so I had success 2 barreling him.#

4) he lead pot so much it was like he was supposed to c/b. he lead 1/2 or pot. this was my toughest adjustment since I was surprised he did it so much.

- obv raise was the standard play at the beginning but he then did it so often that i must decide which hands to raise and which to call or fold. If i raise EVERY time it sucks to chase him away each time, plus he had a tendency to call my raise with some odd holdings but he wasnt calling enough for me to extract the most EV. So I raise my monsters/air and holdings with some equity like a GS or over and I called with some monsters (depending on flop etc)/ A high+overs (this is actually good equity vs his range and has SD value)/ made pair etc.

- i also knew his bet sizing on later streets were weak and only rarely did he make pot bets which id presume is when he has awaken with something. This makes my decent SD hands worthwhile to just call down with ie A high and weak pairs.

ok cant think of much else right now but im sick of not interacting much in ISFs posts.

Yeah if you read the OP this is not what i was asking for.

But it seems like you made some relatively solid adjustments and have a pretty good grasp of what was going on in that match.

cool ISF ill have another think about in work 2m when Ive more time available.

too soon to start pointing out flaws in what i think youre going to say ?

Originally Posted by gabe

too soon to start pointing out flaws in what i think youre going to say ?

lol yeah i mean i'd wait till the very end/death of this thread to make comments because yours are going to be correct.

this kinda reminds me of a big math problem assigned for homework, and i dont do it because im lazy and its only one HR assignment, but i know it would really help. so i just cheat and copy a friends (most likely danny or max's).

that is to say, it would probably be a good barometer of my player analysis, but im just too lazy to do it.

This is very cool. I'll try to find the time to comment thoroughly and insightfully (probably neither) before the thread dies.

ISF needs to:

1. Preflop: Cold call less since villain looks to be very hard to exploit in raised pots ip.

2. 3bet pots: Stop floating or raising cbets on flop because villain is playing fit or fold once he 3bets. Whether or not to shove on turn depends on how often villain folds to cbets since if he doesn't much then his floating range is very wide due to high % of calling pf 3bets.

3. Raised pots: Stop floating villain's c/r in raised pots due to rarity and probable strength. Fire more triple barrels because villain's multi-street felting range is polarized, and tripling should get him off draws (duh) and marginal pairs by the river. Don't single-street bluff fourth or fifth because villain won't fold a made hand.

Villain needs to:

1. Preflop: Play more like ISF.

2. 3bet pots: Shove more turns after ISF cbets flop then checks turn since ISF's felting range then becomes tiny.

3. Raised pots: C/c less and c/r more since this will allow him to bluff better/more. Double more since ISF doesn't know what he's doing when playing passively oop.

/thread