BB special (now with two scoops of minraises!!!)

Thoughts?

***** Hand History for Game 4995311861 *****
$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, August 21, 10:45:55 ET 2006
Table Monster #1290322 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: iganu ( $806.63 )
Seat 3: Fearmyflush ( $399.44 )
Seat 4: HERO ( $223.44 )
Seat 6: zousTos ( $118.06 )
Seat 1: arya0805 ( $93.16 )
Seat 5: NastyMajk ( $108 )
Fearmyflush posts small blind [$1].
HERO posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ ]
NastyMajk calls [$2].
zousTos folds.
arya0805 raises [$4].
Fearmyflush folds.
HERO calls [$2].
NastyMajk calls [$2].
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
HERO checks.
NastyMajk checks.
arya0805 bets [$6].
HERO raises [$12].
NastyMajk calls [$12].
arya0805 calls [$6].
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
HERO checks.
NastyMajk checks.
arya0805 bets [$20].
HERO calls [$20].
NastyMajk calls [$20].
** Dealing River ** [ :Qc: ]
HERO checks.
NastyMajk checks.
arya0805 checks.

wtf warpe, whats up with the flop minraise?

I'll occasionally check/minraise OOP as a feeler bet to get an idea of how much my opp likes his hand. An opponent with a relatively strong hand in position is much more likely to 3-bet a donkish looking minraise than they are a standard 3x or 4x reraise, so I use it as a way gauging his hand strength for very little invested. Since he just called the minraise, I now have pretty good read that his flop bet was a c-bet or position bet and likely not much more. I also have a pretty good read that my other opponent actually has something, maybe a better piece of the flop or a decent draw. Basically, it's an el-cheapo information bet. I have the information I want and I'm ready to bail on the turn if an ace or a king shows up, an obvious draw completes or I don't improve.

The turn card is both good and bad for me, obv.

I'd probably fold pf unless these guys were real terrible. As played, lead flop. Check-minraise is gross.

what info do you get with a flop min raise?

what are you doing on the turn? Am I reading the board wrong? FH draw -EV.

If you don't lead this flop, I would fold pre flop.

Originally Posted by drmcboy

what info do you get with a flop min raise?

what are you doing on the turn? Am I reading the board wrong? FH draw -EV.

If you don't lead this flop, I would fold pre flop.

I think I already answered the first question. Correct me if my thinking doesn't wash.

On the turn, I'm taking a c/c line because I want to keep the pot under control and if NastyMajk hit a straight, he's likely betting here. He doesn't, and I'm confident from the read I get from my minraise that arya0805 has, at most, a pp, so I think MHIG.

Again, if my thinking is severly flawed here I'd like to know why. Let 'er rip. I posted this 'cause I think there are situations where a minraise is a valid play. This may or may not be one of them. It's such an ugly hand, probably poorly played by me, but I figure it's worthy of dissection and I don't mind taking abuse for it.

Min raise gets called by every draw and any overpair (including 99), A8, etc. so I don't see how you know where you're at. You are pricing in almost any hand, although they will be almost as confused as you should now be.

The turn is what I don't get. Why is this a good card? If you were already beat, you're still usually beat, although I guess you pull ahead of A8. A bunch of SDs just caught up. Plus, even if you are ahead, no hand worse than yours can possibly call another bet. you may even IMPROVE on the end and not be best. Finally, your SD is dead.

look at what you said:

my other opponent actually has something, maybe a better piece of the flop or a decent draw

so... you're basically only ahead if this opp has FD and the other opp has TT+ or air, and there are tons of additional cards which will either beat you or make it even more impossible to get paid off.

this hand is a super example of sklanksy - you want to lead flop here because your draw, while sorta big, has very low implied odds.

1) the FD killing outs/raising opportunities
2)the chance that your 2 pair/trips draw will actually just lose you a lot of money
3) same with the SD, it is not to the nuts, and it will be clear as day to everyone.

The last thing you want is to keep everyone in the pot. If you want to CR, make one that might fold out at least the FD.

I think you're losing money with the preflop call.

As played, lead flop and push over a reraise by the pfr.