Beating the curve

Due to the ever changing nature of poker, I would like to not only stay ahead of the curve, but beat it every chance I can. I think it would be a good idea to share any experimental concepts or ideas that we as individuals may be working on or that may be fast approaching. I think that we should never be resting on our laurels, and try to be the innovators instead of the reactors. If anybody is trying anything 'new' to either the game or are just trying for themselves, I think it may be of great benefit for all to discuss. This could be anything from a bet sizing, to preflop play, to exploiting regs, etc. My goal for this thread is to keep us out in front of the current player pool, that is getting better every day.


I would like to start this discussion on something that I really haven't thought too much about yet. With the pending release of PT3 and the probable full release of Holdem Manager, I would like to know what everyone thinks will be the new adjustments now that everyone will see your 3bet and 4bet %'s?

An adjustment I've decided to experiment with recently is with preflop range. I'm not opening small pairs (22-44)from utg or mp at non-nitty tables, and im not playing 22-66, AJo, KQo, and sometimes even AQo (ep/mp raises only)at all versus the opens of decent taggs (unless they specifically open on the button, in which case ill 3bet or fold as i see fit). However, i am playing every suited broadway hand and also 78s-9Ts and sometimes 79s-9Js. I am much more comfortable playing back with these hands than with pps when i miss and flop is not of crappy texture weighing my range against villain's, because my overall equity with these hands is gonna be way higher---i back into lots of random value-bettable hands when they think my range is polarized by my flop play. when im not frequently giving up on the flop in heads situations where i dont have the initiative, tagfish get very frustrated and play bad.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Here's an evil thought:

Our range is not only defined by the hands we would play in a certain way, it is also defined by the range of hands similar players would play in a certain way.

It would take an absurd amount of hands to remove 22-55 from our UTG range unless they could do so via a forum post, table talk, etc.

Hence, we don't need to ever play a hand for an opponent to have to put it in our range.

So by not playing the normal Tagfish setmining game, you feel like you are gaining and advantage? You say that you are more comfortable playing back when the flop texture is NOT crappy, where as I think it would be better to play back when there is a crappy flop texture(ie ISF theorem-your range on crappy flops is much higher than an opener's).


BTW: Its been nice playing with you lately, I hope I haven't embarrassed myself...

i think jman said something in his well about donking into the pfr possibly becoming the next 3betting light/check raising the river fad kind of thing.

by non-crappy flop texture i meant its not a crappy texture for us to defend our range against his. sorry for not being clear

Playing really tight UTG = A+

As soon as a friend told me that AJo was a loser for most UTG i stopped playing anything worse.

i fold Ajo utg when not tilted

oh yea and when ppl see your 3 and 4 bet % its just gonna be a lot easier to beat the em2-type tags as we will have significantly more complete information about their game.

probably effectively changing gears/styles will become important since ppl tend to play with alright preflop fundamentals at least at msnl.

Sauce: So you are saying that because of the increased info, preflop play will become more important? I think this makes sense, so then we will need to blend preflop styles much more?

BTW: I am up nice with AJo UTG for the year, and I think I have been raising it the whole time.

you don't need a HUD to figure out whether someone is 3betting lite or 3betting tight. overall, i think the inclusion of 3bet/4bet stats will just increase the level of aggression and ease of stacking off. 3bet pots are already pretty big, and with the almost mandatory cbets, it almost becomes a necessity to start stacking off because your range fairs well against a wide 3betting range.

i am folding AJo, KQo and worse in teh first two positions unless there's a donk im trying to take to valuetown before someone else does. that's a whole different story