Confusing turn

opp stationy lag.

PokerStars Game #11776290297: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2007/08/30 - 14:42:46 (ET)
Table 'Neith' 2-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: feldo ($177.50 in chips)
Seat 2: heybude ($311.45 in chips)
heybude: posts small blind $1
feldo: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [Kc Jh]
heybude: raises $4 to $6
feldo: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [Td Jd 8s]
feldo: checks
heybude: bets $8
feldo: calls $8
*** TURN *** [Td Jd 8s] [As]
feldo: checks
heybude:

Just check behind. He might call with a diamond draw, but not always. Just try to showdown cheap I think.

Originally Posted by zook

Just check behind. He might call with a diamond draw, but not always. Just try to showdown cheap I think.

hmmmm, im betting here. We have to be ahead of his pairs and draws etc.

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Originally Posted by zook

Just check behind. He might call with a diamond draw, but not always. Just try to showdown cheap I think.

hmmmm, im betting here. We have to be ahead of his pairs and draws etc.

However if we are ahead of something like a T or an 8 with no redraw its somewhat irrelvant. Also, if he has a combo draw he may blow us off our hand.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Originally Posted by zook

Just check behind. He might call with a diamond draw, but not always. Just try to showdown cheap I think.

hmmmm, im betting here. We have to be ahead of his pairs and draws etc.

However if we are ahead of something like a T or an 8 with no redraw its somewhat irrelvant. Also, if he has a combo draw he may blow us off our hand.

would'nt he raise the flop to do that and put us under pressure?
I dont like giving a free card to a weaker pair as they will bluff at any scary river (unless we've made our minds up to call regardless of river in which case sure check) but id prefer to bet here and have to make a decision if opp decides to try and blow us off our hand.

I'd bet again. There's good value in it and I don't think he'll try to semi-bluff when you are showing pretty good strength.

Betting the scare card works when you don't have any SD value I think. I don't understand turning your hand into a bluff, and I don't see any worse hands calling now unless they have a lot of outs.

However, IF he has seen you bet scare cards before, go ahead, by all means bet it.

Unless the guy isnt very good, didnt for example raise an Ax flush draw and overcard or stroingish TP hand, the ace is pretty irrelevant except to KQ.
But in all these situations against a half competent player id expect to see some flop pressure because if we make it clear we like our hand against his pressure opp has lots of scary cards he can bluff at putting us to a quite tough decision.
Hence no flop raise means hes pretty weak or super-dooooper strong.

I see nothing wrong with betting here.

It depends on how good opponent is. Against good opponents, you should sometimes turn hands like that one which have showdown value into bluffs so that they can't read you so well. When you bet here, he puts on 1.an ace or 2.a bluff. If you include mediocre hands like your in your range, you become more unpredictable and you add 3. option: mediocre hand.

I like betting. He won't semibluff a turn with an ace so if he makes a raise, you can muck it easily. That way you don 't give him a free card and you get information about the strenght of his hand so that you don't pay him off on the river.

Actually, OOP i like bettting here but in position checking may be a little better.

Betting here versus a good opponent confuses me because it expands the bottom end of our range but i cant really find out a reason why that would help us metagame wise as we surely check the river.
I mean, when i bet the turn my range seems very polarized as a monster or a draw, but I can't really imagine a good opponent calling a turn bet with something like J9

id bet here close to 100% against a "stationy lag"

i htink u lose a lot of value doing anything else

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Betting here versus a good opponent confuses me because it expands the bottom end of our range but i cant really find out a reason why that would help us metagame wise as we surely check the river.
I mean, when i bet the turn my range seems very polarized as a monster or a draw, but I can't really imagine a good opponent calling a turn bet with something like J9

Ah, forget about it. I was talking about general strategy which I have been discussing yesterday on 2+2. Read my second paragraph.