A couple river spots

Hand 1
-I haven't had many hands with villain, he's running about 45/9/3 over only 50 hands. He seems pretty passive preflop though from what I can tell and haven't noticed anything from him postflop yet
-I missed my turn c/r, so should I c/r river or just c/c?

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $430
CO: $459
Button: $220.05
SB: $399.73
BB: $1139

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with
Hero raises to $20, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: ($47, 2 players)
Hero bets $30, CO raises to $60, Hero calls $30 (pot was $137).

Turn: ($167, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

River: ($167, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $120, Hero ??


Hand 2
-Villain has been playing decently, but I haven't seen him play much in 3-bet pots
-I have seen him raise a few draws on the flop against other players
-his AF numbers are kind of odd 3.4/2.6/6.0 over 400ish hands, odd only because of his river high aggression
-I was pretty confused with what hand he could have here by the river, that would flat call flop, check through turn and bet river. I thought my 22 could be good even, but thought a push could get him off some midpair hand that he was thin valuebetting on the river
-is this spewww? probably lol

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $416
CO: $360.91
Button: $497
SB: $515.10
Hero: $1043.10

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with
2 folds, Button raises to $15, SB folds, Hero raises to $44, Button calls.

Flop: ($90, 2 players)
Hero bets $40, Button calls.

Turn: ($170, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($170, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $111, Hero raises all-in $959.1

hmm... maybe these plays are too spew/read-dependent to comment on.

I'd imagine number 2 is prob mostly reads, but number 1 I'd be interested in if it should be an auto-call in that spot or auto raise?

I'll look at them for you

Hand 1). i actually think folding on the flop is fine, as i would c/f the turn unless i hit an 8 or a 10. Bet turn/shove river is probably better versus weaker players who aren't very aggressive rather than c/c turn c/r river. I would not c/r the river as played.

Hand 2). why the small c-bet on the flop? Would you stop betting with K-K+ after the flop like this? If he isn't going to think about the hand like that then i do like it since he probably has a mid pair or missed flush.

I think good rivercards to check/raise on in this hand versus a competent opponent are an Ace, King, Heart, or a Ten.

Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill

I'll look at them for you

Hand 1). i actually think folding on the flop is fine, as i would c/f the turn unless i hit an 8 or a 10. Bet turn/shove river is probably better versus weaker players who aren't very aggressive rather than c/c turn c/r river. I would not c/r the river as played.

Hand 2). why the small c-bet on the flop? Would you stop betting with K-K+ after the flop like this? If he isn't going to think about the hand like that then i do like it since he probably has a mid pair or missed flush.

I think good rivercards to check/raise on in this hand versus a competent opponent are an Ace, King, Heart, or a Ten.

Hey vi, thanks for the look

Hand 1 - Yah I think I have a problem. I'm incapable of folding to min-raises, especially when I'm betting on a board that villain probably doesn't think hit me. But you're right, betting turn is prob best.

Hand 2 - yah small flop lead was cause I wanted to leave enough money behind on the turn for a c/r with fold quity. Villain likes to float a bit, though I guess thats also reason to just fire two strong barrels.

hand one, imo, has counterfeited you off and a good example of why you dont slowplay vulnerable holdings.

hand two, looks like you are trapping a monster or dont have shit. if you are trying to bump him off by repping a strong overpair, bet like it on the flop and turn. JJ doesnt bet that flop lightly or check the turn.

all this "trying for a c/r" stuff may mean you have my problem...FPS. just bet for value, and re-evaluate if he raises you back.

i like river on hand too. i reckon opp hasnt got trips obv but i like against the right opp's

Originally Posted by Chopper

all this "trying for a c/r" stuff may mean you have my problem...FPS. just bet for value, and re-evaluate if he raises you back.

Yah I don't do this too often at all, these are just two examples

I rarely go for c/r on rivers and I usually only c/r river if I missed my turn c/r and I think villain will call a river lead with a WIDE range (due to the turn check through) but can only value bet and then call a river c/r with a NARROW range.

I would likely play X7, 55, TT the same in hand 2, and I just can't see what he can call with? Other than the fact that he turned up with 68 in this hand for the straight

Chopper - hand 1, yah you're correct I was counterfeited. But I check/raised anyway, cause as played preflop, I didn't see him having many overpairs here or anything. He showed up with JJ, but I'm still not sure if c/c is losing value in the long run.

lol. its not like it was a great read or anything. i just see a board pair, and say, "FUUUUUU. i just got screwed." i usually bet anyway, too, but find that pesky overpair or top pair all too often.

as for the 68 straight hand, i seem to get flamed a lot for getting aggressive in those spots, too. i always get the answer, "the only thing that calls you, beats you." and, thats true, but i dont seem to get the other half of the comment.....

the only hand that calls you beats you.......ALL OTHERS FOLD to that much aggression. which is what i'm trying to accomplish with a big push. theres usually only one thing that calls...the stone cold nuts.

Originally Posted by Chopper

as for the 68 straight hand, i seem to get flamed a lot for getting aggressive in those spots, too. i always get the answer, "the only thing that calls you, beats you." and, thats true, but i dont seem to get the other half of the comment.....

the only hand that calls you beats you.......ALL OTHERS FOLD to that much aggression. which is what i'm trying to accomplish with a big push. theres usually only one thing that calls...the stone cold nuts.

yes I agree with this,this was definitely nooooot a value push. I don't want to be called here thats for sure lol

This was definitely a "a lot of better hands will fold" BLUFF push.

for example, if I had T9 in this spot, I would probably be c/c'ing or c/f'ing but not c/r'ing cause that hand has too much showdown value.