Crazy to fold bottom set in limped pot?

somewhat new to table, BB is a bit aggressive but has shown decent hands. No reads on SB who just sat down. I think this is a laydown, but I almost never advocate laying down a set on the flop.

Here's why: Since it's limped, 5 3 is a possibility, as is 44 or 66 (I don't see many people raising low pp at 50NL). Really all we beat here is 2p, or TP and a OESD. If we're up against a set, we are drawing to 1 out, if we are up against a straight at least we have a chance to fill up.

I meant to re-raise BB, but accidentally just called in the excitement...when SB finally came out from hiding to re-raise, I felt I had to be beat.

The action just screams of people trying to build the pot while "hiding"the monster, especially SB's check, call, and re-raise of BB. SB has to have us beat... BB could too, or just have 2p.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($76.85)
CO ($28.20)
Hero ($49.55)
SB ($49.25)
BB ($55.90)
UTG ($38.90)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2, 2.
3 folds, Hero calls $0.50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.50) 2, 4, 6 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.5, Hero raises to $1.5, SB calls $1.50, BB raises to $6.5, Hero calls $5, SB raises to $15.5, BB calls $9, Hero ??

The open limp on button is horrible

I disagree strongly bob, at 50NL I make more money with more players in the pot when my set hits. I find limp/calling low/mid PPs to give me the biggest EV+

wow i was about to start flipping out at you for wanting to fold a set but i think it could be the correct laydown here.

standard

The limp is bad b/c you're playing in a much smaller pot than you should be. Also, it does nothing at all to help you narrow your opponents hand ranges while yours stays relatively wide b/c of the position you opened from.

I would raise at 100NL, but at 50NL I think I get more value by calling and having a multiway. Just because the pot starts out small doesn't mean it won't get big if villian thinks they are good with 2p. I also think you lose a ton of value from these hands if people fold to you often while holding them, instead of giving them an opportunity to chase a draw, hit 2p, etc.

I'd honestly rather not discuss the open limp strategy in this thread, as set mining is the most profitable part of my game. I just started another thread on "PP leaks" so it would be cool if we discussed that over there.

I'd really enjoy comments on whether, as played, you would fold bottom set.

alexos, you really think this fold is standard? Why?

you explained it in your OP
i would fold here, too

The argument for open limping on the button is one I refuse to listen to.

I think this is a fold b/c even if you are up against a straight the likelihood of the other player holding top 2 kills all of your redraws.

mixchange - i hate how you play. don't open limp button.
ok to open limp low pps in EP at these stakes. but probs better to open raise even at these stakes.

you play post flop so bad! raise more! bet more aggro. try betting pot every single time you want to raise. it would be better than the stupid tiny raises you make.

don't fold here. you have outs.

what outs does he have pokerroomace?

PR:

How do we have outs? What do you think our opponents have here?

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I won't limp button when folded to me anymore, but I'm definitely limping the button with pps if I have callers in front of me, best case with a set is a lot of people in a pot to increase the likelyhood someone got a piece, then bet hard.

I don't always bet weakly, I post hands frequently that I thought I played badly, so you mostly just see my bad play.

My cbets are usually 2/3 - full pot, so when I get a good hand that's what I bet so it looks routine. But I think what I'm getting criticized for 'weak betting' is my re-raise amounts. Typically I re-raise 3x what the other person raised, but apparently you think it should be 4 or 5x? doesn't that seem like overbetting?

There's a balance somewhere between medium bets and big bets to getting paid. I've had people pay me off pretty well with middle pair because I wasn't just betting huge on every street and I'm a frequent cbetter. But if I potted every street, I'd miss value.

I see overpairs, A6, two pairs too often to think about folding here without a solid read that one of them is a nit that only ever bets the nuts. Yeah SB's line is weird but a lot of the time low stakes player's brain's kind of short circuit when pots get big and they just default to push.

Originally Posted by Galapogos

I see overpairs, A6, two pairs too often to think about folding here without a solid read that one of them is a nit that only ever bets the nuts. Yeah SB's line is weird but a lot of the time low stakes player's brain's kind of short circuit when pots get big and they just default to push.

Exactly what I was thinking when I read OP. I can easily see one having A6 and the other with 33-99. I can see 35 here too, but the pot is going to be laying you 2:1 if you can keep them both in. I get it in with bottom set getting 2:1 anyday.

I got into this situation once and I folded bottom set to two oversets. Similar board, similar action.

This board also has straight possibilities. Given the action it's very very very unlikely you are ahead. At least one of them beats you most of the time.

Folding sets is OK sometimes ppl.

getting 2:1, i think you need to get your money in here. TPTK, draws and overpairs make up more of villains range here than sets IMO.

as far as open limping PP's goes: Dont. If there is a limper or 2 ahead of me, i will gladly limp BEHIND with 22-66(77 maybe), but open limping is horrible here.

Originally Posted by mixchange

But I think what I'm getting criticized for 'weak betting' is my re-raise amounts. Typically I re-raise 3x what the other person raised, but apparently you think it should be 4 or 5x? doesn't that seem like overbetting?

The problem is you're only looking at the size of their bet, and not at the size of the pot. What is the pot is $10 and someone donks $1, are you raising him to $3 then? That'd be $2 more for him to call on a pot worth $14..

In this particular case, pot is $1.5, he bets $0.5, you raise to $1.5.. that means the pot is $3.5 and he has to call $1 more, so it's kinda tiny (29%). It would be the same if the pot was $2.5 and you made a straight up $1 bet..

For reference, if the pot is $1.5 and you bet pot he has to call 50%. To have a similar raise after his $0.5 bet, you'd have to make it $3. Then he has to call $2.5 into a $5 pot. This may be too large for your purposes, but just to give you an example..