Dissapointing but standard line?

no reads on villan...
PokerStars Game #7761977873: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/01/04 - 13:58:50 (ET)
Table 'Risha III' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: eunhobae ($64.50 in chips)
Seat 3: blahaea ($81.55 in chips)
Seat 4: giofiz ($50.45 in chips)
Seat 5: schnulliB ($33.05 in chips)
Seat 6: redgrape ($50 in chips)
giofiz: posts small blind $0.25
schnulliB: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to redgrape [Qc Qs]
redgrape: raises $1.50 to $2
eunhobae: folds
blahaea: folds
giofiz: raises $2.50 to $4.50
schnulliB: folds
redgrape: raises $6.50 to $11
giofiz: raises $11 to $22
redgrape: folds
giofiz collected $22.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $22.50 | Rake $0
Seat 2: eunhobae folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: blahaea (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: giofiz (small blind) collected ($22.50)
Seat 5: schnulliB (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: redgrape folded before Flop

Flat call pf.

The reraise is more effective in position, I think. If you do it OOP, you almost hope to take it down PF. I don't think most $50 players 4 bet anything less than QQ PF....

I don't like it, but I think you have to fold as played. I tend to get too aggressive with QQ PF and regret it more than I would like to.

Why are we 4betting in position here? He just folds all the hands we beat.

flat call and not close

if you are going to fourbet, then don't be such a pussy about it, its barely more than a minraise. Make a pot-size reraise and call a push.

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

I know for a mutha-fuckin fact most $50 players don't 4 bet anything less than QQ PF....

Call the initial reraise preflop. Unless you have some severe history or read you don't want QQ going all-in preflop.

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

Why are we 4betting in position here? He just folds all the hands we beat.

FWIW, leak or not, my 4th bet is normally a push unless we are both extremely deep. Thoughts?

That being said, if his 3-bet range is JJ+, AJ+, AJs+, we are only 55/45 against the range. I guess my thought is after the 4th bet if not a push, it would be for almost half a stack. Total there would be 60+BB in the pot. I would be happy taking that down PF with a vulnerable hand. I also think if raiser is looser than that, any pocket pair that 3-bets calls a less than stack size 4th bet due to dead money. So you really only fold out AJ, AQ, and MAYBE AK. The OOP player will generally define his hand on the flop, especially if an A falls.

Flawed?

OOP is this standard?

I don't think this is standard. I would 3bet to $15 and possibly fold to a push depending on the limited read of the opponent.

At 50NL you need to 4bet approx. never. People just do not 3bet light enough to make it a profitable strategy.

OOP it's not standard either.

Ummm. eww. What's the point of the 4-bet??? If you're leading, it's not like you need to protect your hand all that much. And if you're behind, why not flop a set?

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

At 50NL you need to 4bet approx. never. People just do not 3bet light enough to make it a profitable strategy.

games at the 50nl and 100nl levels are more aggressive than you think

Well ok I suppose I should say that I was guessing there but when I played 100NL in August I don't think I ever needed to 4bet.

Originally Posted by Renton

games at the 50nl and 100nl levels are more aggressive than you think

I think that is what you'd like to think...

yea its obviously just my imagination that each 100nl table on stars had at least one 25/22 player that was threebetting me with T8o in position as his standard line.

I think this is a fold the way you played it.

But you should've called PF and tried to showdown cheap on a non A high flop. Trust your post flop game.

Originally Posted by Renton

yea its obviously just my imagination that each 100nl table on stars had at least one 25/22 player that was threebetting me with T8o in position as his standard line.

lol I just wanted to push your buttons...

4 betting hands like QQ/JJ/AK with the intention of folding to a shove is terrible with 100bbs (and in general). Just call pf.